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9 hours ago, Jimmy C said:

Started a new Dwarf campaign on hard difficulty and want to spice things up by advancing north - all the way to Norsca if possible. The difficulty lies in the territories north of me being occupied by other Dwarf's and me not wanting to go to war with them. I have defensive alliances with them, so can pass through their territories, but I would ideally like to own their cities, so i have a closer point to produce units.

 

Any tips on the best way to get them to like me enough that they will confederate with me? Usually i wait until they are so beaten down that they don't have any choice, but as that doesn't look like happening any time soon, is there any other way to speed up the confederation process? I've got defensive alliances with them and have researched the +20 diplomatic bonus in the tech tree. Should i just throw money at them? I'm still pretty early game (around turn 30) and have 3 provinces under my control.

Declaring war against their enemies also helps in that regard as well as using hero actions against their enemies and such. Hell you don't even have to actually battle their enemies, just raiding their enemies territory should be affect your allies opinion positively. Gifting them gold also helps, but they do have a cooldown period so just giving them a lump sum of money every turn won't work. And of course having other treatises like trade and military access helps too. As well as having treaties with their other allies. If you do battle their enemies then executing prisoners makes them like you while releasing them has a negative impacts.

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I'm liking the Bretonnians so far, which I wasn't sure I would. They are really flavourful and their objective makes them quite different to play. After taking Marienburg and the nearby Orc hold, I captured Lyonesse and Mousillon. Then I moved in to assist the Imperials who were dying under the combined attacks of the Beastmen and Skarsnik. This is now mostly dealt with, and the good thing is that everybody loves me for it. Sending a crusade to Norsca while finishing the Gobs. Meanwhile, I have confederated Bastonne and Bordeleaux, but Parravon and Artois are more resilient.

 

With that out of the way, I feel like they are very unbalanced compared to other factions. On the plus side:

- Blessing of the Lady is a very good bonus. But also means you cannot retreat if you want to keep it.

- A lot of Knights can accomplish a lot and are fun to play with. Magic also has good options.

- Free walls at lvl 3 is cool...

 

BUT

 

- ...Bretonnians have the shittiest garrisons possible. Yeah Knights are no good in a siege, big surprise. And your infantry is too bad. Walls or no walls, you will have to buy the extra units and your garrison is still bad.

- The skill trees of the Legendary Lords are super weak. Really need an overhaul even for the basic stuff.

- Their building tree is a mess as well, and not very efficient.

- The peasants mechanism is not fun. First of all you can entirely avoid it by building Industry only. Second, +2 per settlement is just too low to in fact do it any other way. I get that it forces you to have a large cavalry force in line with the fluff but it's not well balanced.

- The whole chivalry thing is super flavourful, but it also severely limits your options if you ever want to fill the bar. Sure, you can ignore it but you won't progress your ultimate goal. I'm T60 and have barely reached the first cap. I doubt the Green Knight is that much of an advantage.

- The virtues are plain robbery. If you don't have them, you simply can't field the corresponding Knights - 900 Upkeep for a lvl 3 cavalry unit, wtf? So in the end they are just another constraint, you need them to have access to your best troops but they take skill slots but no additional benefit.

 

All in all, don't give me wrong, I really like the different feel, but the faction as a whole is severely hampered compared to most others. They could use a bit of love I think.

 

Did I forget something? :)

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@ Alessus, thanks for the tips. I ended up going to war with their enemies (was mostly dragged into them as part of the defensive alliance), but as their enemies were Vamps that were nowhere near me, it didn’t bother me much. Combined with some hero actions and throwing a bit of money at them, I managed to confederate with the 2 Dwarf clans north of me and now control the mountains all the way to the border with Kislev.

 

The problem I then had was that my happiness went to hell (you get a happiness penalty for confederating) and now my armies are tied up dealing with uprisings, rather than dealing with the Orcs who seem to be steamrolling/confederating with other Orc tribes and building up huge stacks in the south. Once they release those stacks on me I will be in major trouble unless I can concentrate my forces back south.

 

@ Barristan, I really struggled to figure out the Bretonnian economy. Apart from early game I found them quite boring – it seems to promote turtling, as you just build up good relations and confederate. Rinse and repeat. And without fighting any battles, you gradually confederate with all the Bretonnian factions. In the end I stopped that campaign from boredom (although late game is a grind for me as most races). Will have to give it another go sometime, as I want to try and get a short campaign victory as every race (so far I’ve done it with Empire, Dwarf, Orc, Skarsnik and Belegar).

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@Barristan you didn't list it so may have missed a big advantage Brets have that helps ameliorate some of the issues you raise; uniquely there is no upkeep multiplier for them. Brets can afford to have unit-less lords leech XP supporting your developed lords. You can pre-level battle lords and have economic lords permanently in your towns. With walls and lords everywhere garrison strength rapidly losses relevance. Once you have Alberic parked in Marienburg the Brets snowball stupidly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ah, I did indeed miss that one. I guess that's pretty good for hunting naval bonuses too. Thanks for pointing it out :) Although 'parking' lords can be counter productive as they gain the Procrastinator trait quickly (at least Louen does).

 

@Jimmy C: I'm with you on getting bored towards the end of campaigns. I never finished Dwarfs and Empire even though I was close. I got Orcs (Grimgor) in W1, the special Woodies campaign as Orion, Malekith and Settra in Vortex Race, Teclis in ME. I started a ME campaign as Skrolk but stopped in the middle and took a break. It was going well but I was bored of fighting Lizards.

 

Vamps I could not play more than 30 turns.

Edited by Barristan
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7 hours ago, Barristan said:

Ah, I did indeed miss that one. I guess that's pretty good for hunting naval bonuses too. Thanks for pointing it out :) Although 'parking' lords can be counter productive as they gain the Procrastinator trait quickly (at least Louen does).

 

Everyone misses it initially I think... it isn't well flagged up and normal mechanic is so deeply ingrained we all just assume it is the same until it gets pointed out.

 

All lords can get procrastinator if parked, but this is where your religious building chain comes in. Parking then removes negatraits and grants a devout buff.

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Maybe you guys should try higher difficulties and/or multiplayer campaigns? Bonus points for head-to-head campaigns although I suppose those would be more fun if you had more than 2 people in and could organize it in a forum or something consistently over a longer period of time.

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Full patch note is out, still reading through it: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-patch-notes-the-resurgent-update

 

Funny that what you mentioned is now fixed, Zoraster: Rebalanced Bretonnian economy skills (Yield of the Sea, Tenth-Share, Bailiff) that encouraged cheesy gameplay, including but not limited to people only ever using Alberic as Marienburg harbourmaster. :)

 

Re the Lord upkeep, I think I mostly missed it because I was just finishing a TK campaign, and they don't have it either. But it's true some of these things are easily overlooked, like the Helf buffs to a province when Public Order is high.

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Just read through the whole list of notes - I'm still looking forward to my Ungrim campaign, but seeing all the mass reductions for Dwarven units, I hope they aren't completely countered by cavalery now.

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Since WH1 is heavily discounted right now I decided to give it a try, I haven't played any Total War game since Rome 1, which I liked a lot because of the modding community this game had.

 

Warhammer setting seems like a great fit for a Total War game, but I was a little disappointed by pretty shallow strategic side and curtailed diplomacy. They could've at least add some meaningful population system to, say, represent a huge numerical advantage the Greenskins have over Dwarves, for example. As it is, the Dwarves or Wood Elves can field limitless number of soldiers and control vast territories with ease. The battle side of the game is fun, with magic, monsters, and peculiar war machines, I liked it quite a bit. My problem, though, were long loading times. The game seems to run okay even on my not so new PC, even with the biggest unit size, but every time a battle starts or ends I have to wait for several minutes for the map to load. Do you absolutely have to install it on an SSD? I don't have one at the moment. Are things better in WH2 or should I still refrain from bying it?

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@ Deithwen,

TWW is definitely more focused on the battles rather than the strategic side. Diplomacy definitely being an afterthought in this game. The battles are fun though and make for great eye candy.

 

I haven't bought TWW2 yet, so don't know how it is. I was going to buy it during the current sale (thanks again for the heads up Tys), but dropped my Iphone and am now $350 poorer just to get it fixed... goodbye discretionary spending for the next few months.

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On 2018-06-03 at 1:00 AM, Deithwen said:

Since WH1 is heavily discounted right now I decided to give it a try, I haven't played any Total War game since Rome 1, which I liked a lot because of the modding community this game had.

 

Warhammer setting seems like a great fit for a Total War game, but I was a little disappointed by pretty shallow strategic side and curtailed diplomacy. They could've at least add some meaningful population system to, say, represent a huge numerical advantage the Greenskins have over Dwarves, for example. As it is, the Dwarves or Wood Elves can field limitless number of soldiers and control vast territories with ease. The battle side of the game is fun, with magic, monsters, and peculiar war machines, I liked it quite a bit. My problem, though, were long loading times. The game seems to run okay even on my not so new PC, even with the biggest unit size, but every time a battle starts or ends I have to wait for several minutes for the map to load. Do you absolutely have to install it on an SSD? I don't have one at the moment. Are things better in WH2 or should I still refrain from bying it?

I got WH2 a while ago.. I have not played any wh1 as of now.. But very tempted to try the dwarfs.

But the khemris are so fun..

I have only faced AI.. So Depending on the situation you as a player might change a quick battle quite a lot.

Taking advantage of the surrounding archers and magic.

 

I also got a draw one battle when the site had lots of wood and my skinks at that time was hiding and moving successfully.. It is actually quite hard to reproduce.. Which is good.

So I like it.

 

I must try dark elfs again.. It was not fitting my play style at my first try..

But all good ;)

 

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On 03/06/2018 at 12:00 AM, Deithwen said:

Since WH1 is heavily discounted right now I decided to give it a try, I haven't played any Total War game since Rome 1, which I liked a lot because of the modding community this game had.

 

Warhammer setting seems like a great fit for a Total War game, but I was a little disappointed by pretty shallow strategic side and curtailed diplomacy. They could've at least add some meaningful population system to, say, represent a huge numerical advantage the Greenskins have over Dwarves, for example. As it is, the Dwarves or Wood Elves can field limitless number of soldiers and control vast territories with ease. The battle side of the game is fun, with magic, monsters, and peculiar war machines, I liked it quite a bit. My problem, though, were long loading times. The game seems to run okay even on my not so new PC, even with the biggest unit size, but every time a battle starts or ends I have to wait for several minutes for the map to load. Do you absolutely have to install it on an SSD? I don't have one at the moment. Are things better in WH2 or should I still refrain from bying it?

 

I have long loading times as well, say 30 secs pre-battle and two minutes post-battle. Apart from that very smooth, just a graphical glitch giving me a black screen for one minute once in a while. WH2 might be slightly faster but not by much. As for the population level, it seems difficult without giving insanely strong troops to the less populous factions to compensate, which would ruin the multiplayer balance. Even with adjusted costs, being attacked in flanks and rear is too penalizing to let you field three elite regiments against 10 mediocre units. Besides, this has always been the case in TW games - have you never conquered Europe as the medieval Irish? ;)

 

Currently playing as Karak Kadrin and loving it. After securing the mountains north of the Silver Road, I went against the Vamps as their filthy corruption was spreading and the Empire seemed to struggle. Just finished smashing them. I will now split my armies, going south to help the High King against the Greenskin tide and to secure a port for trade (Barak Varr preferably), and north to fulfill my objectives and bring the war to Norsca and Moulder.

 

The Dwarfs still seem to struggle against the Orcs, and Skarsnik is going strong in the west. Kislev has carved a mighty empire on the other hand. I really like starting in a middle position and not being required to take the Badlands. Also beginning with hordes of Slayers as you have access to little else made for a different playstyle. - charging Stunties! Ungrim is a badass Lord killer if not very effective against common troops. The Forge is a nice addition. Oh and Mount Gunbad has to be the richest settlement on the map for Dwarves - just insane.

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13 hours ago, Barristan said:

 

I have long loading times as well, say 30 secs pre-battle and two minutes post-battle. Apart from that very smooth, just a graphical glitch giving me a black screen for one minute once in a while. WH2 might be slightly faster but not by much. As for the population level, it seems difficult without giving insanely strong troops to the less populous factions to compensate, which would ruin the multiplayer balance. Even with adjusted costs, being attacked in flanks and rear is too penalizing to let you field three elite regiments against 10 mediocre units. Besides, this has always been the case in TW games - have you never conquered Europe as the medieval Irish? ;)

 

Currently playing as Karak Kadrin and loving it. After securing the mountains north of the Silver Road, I went against the Vamps as their filthy corruption was spreading and the Empire seemed to struggle. Just finished smashing them. I will now split my armies, going south to help the High King against the Greenskin tide and to secure a port for trade (Barak Varr preferably), and north to fulfill my objectives and bring the war to Norsca and Moulder.

 

The Dwarfs still seem to struggle against the Orcs, and Skarsnik is going strong in the west. Kislev has carved a mighty empire on the other hand. I really like starting in a middle position and not being required to take the Badlands. Also beginning with hordes of Slayers as you have access to little else made for a different playstyle. - charging Stunties! Ungrim is a badass Lord killer if not very effective against common troops. The Forge is a nice addition. Oh and Mount Gunbad has to be the richest settlement on the map for Dwarves - just insane.

Well, MP and SP units don't have to be the same or have the same stats, multiplayer should be balanced, singleplayer in my opinion should be less arcade-y and closer to lore if possible. As for other TW games, as I said, I haven't played one for about 11 or 12 years. Even then, population mechanics wouldn't really bar you from conquest, it would just make said conquest more difficult and rewarding. Like the Dwarves who would reclaim an ancient stroghold, clearing out hordes of Greenskins. But yeah, I get that the TW games aren't about that.

 

As for medieval Irish, try MEIOU&Taxes mod for Europa Universalis 4, it does have a dinamic population mechanic which makes succeeding as a minor nation more difficult and more rewarding.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Santa visited me early this year (perhaps taking pity on me for the costs incurred to fix my phone) and gifted me TWW2! A totally random and unexpected present, but one that I highly appreciate.

 

Left the pc on to download it last night and my wife turned it off. Annoying! D/l time of 3 hours means I will have to d/l it tonight and probably won’t get to play it until tomorrow. It should give me time to decide which race to start as, although in deference to the person that gave me the game I might have to do a first run with High Elves. ;)

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34 minutes ago, Barristan said:

You played that Ungrim campaign yet Borke?

 

I did. About halfway now, at a point where I'm running out of challenges :P

 

The crafting system is great, some really nice loot to have there. And starting with tons of slayers is great fun, hit and run tactics with Dwarves! Definitely did not disappoint.

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@Jimmy C: you should probably try Vortex at least once to discover the map and decide if you like the pacing if the campaign - the objective is imposing a relative urgency (nothing too crazy at least on the lower difficulties). If you have trouble with the grindy finishes (I think you do, like me), ME will most probably end up like that (but it's great, don't give me wrong).

 

@Borke: Agreed. I have 7 Norscan settlements to raze to finish mine. I had to split push South and North because the Greenskins were much too strong for the AI to handle. Amusingly, the Empire was on its dying bed when I attacked Sylvania and ended up being a powerhouse once I exterminated the Vamps for them. The main difficulty ended up being the establishment of trade routes. Even after I took Barak Varr, Karak Hirn and the Imperials had two cities blocking the way to my capital. I decided to attack Kislev, hoping to capture a port up there. My Empire allies beat me to it (idiots) but the Greenskins captured most of the Silver Road, which I reclaimed to finally connect to my capital. Everybody loved me after fighting the Orcs for so long, so my income sky rocketed. Still, the Greenskins are incredibly resilient and iI just finished taking the Badlands after 180 turns! Loved the campaign, even though I think they messed up a bit with the climate in Norsca not being favorable to Ungrim and the top right corner of the map being a rather ugly place in my opinion.

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So I’ve had way less time than I thought to play, especially given the world cup is on. Lost $20 backing Spain to win…

 

Anyway, for my first go at TWW2 I led the High Elves on Hard/Normal (campaign/battle) in the Vortex campaign and decided to do the start battle and turn the guide thing on. Although this is supposed to be for newbies to the game, I thought there might be some new features compared to TWW1 that I would otherwise miss. It had the unfortunate effect of making the first 30 minutes really boring, without teaching me anything new. Once past that though, I skipped along rather handily and have found the early game pretty easy so far. In fact the early game seems easier than any of the TWW1 races I have played.

 

I like the battle maps better as there seems to be more terrain that has an effect on the battle, such as hills and forests, etc. I haven’t gotten past the base units yet, but the High Elf ones seem pretty good. I keep forgetting to turn skirmish mode off for my Lothern Sea Guard though – Annoying when your beautiful formation suddenly has holes due to the Sea Guard falling back! I also like how every few turns you have relation options. And its useful being able to see all the territory of your trade partners.

 

Some questions though:

- I’ve manage to collect a fair few wayshards, but have no idea what they do or how to use them?

- There was a shipwreck off the south coast and I moved a lord in a boat to it. The shipwreck then just disappeared. Was this because I didn’t have any troops in the army apart from the lord, or are some shipwrecks simply empty?

- After capturing 3 provinces and befriending all the High Elves I am now a bit directionless as to what I should be doing and so am focusing on building up my cities/towns. How do you start the first Vortex ceremony? Is this linked to the wayshards?

Edited by Jimmy C
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Yeah, wayshards are the HE ritual resource. If you look at the top middle of the screen there is a tracker marked 1-5. That shows how far along each faction is in the race. The numbers double up as an activator button when you are ready to start a ceremony. Acquiring more settlements that produce your ceremony resource/stopping enemies from developing their own resource settlements should always be a consideration.  

 

All the sea resources give you something, but they don't all have a dilemma attached so they don't trigger  a pop-up. If it just disappeared you probably got a straight cash or cash/experience reward. It adds a message to world events so you can check next time it happens.

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You should definitely consider expanding, even if it means attacking another High Elf faction. You need a strong (and preferably compact) economy to make it to the late game. When you start your first ritual, you'll see that you get attacked by stacks of Chaos/Beastmen/Skaven/Norsca units. These get tougher with each ritual. Waaay tougher.

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