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J.J. Cash

Kislev Coach Support Group

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3 hours ago, Juriel said:

Daaaaamn. Kislev, why you like this.

 

Their one trick is so amazing, I imagine it's tough to keep them balanced.  They were not intended to be a tier 1 team, but with some good dice can definitely play in that category.  Their high cost really makes you play the blitzers OR the catchers.  If you try to play both you can't really have the bear.  I enjoy them quite a bit but they're the type of team that makes you take a break from BB when they go bad!

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10 hours ago, Javelin said:

 

Their one trick is so amazing, I imagine it's tough to keep them balanced.  They were not intended to be a tier 1 team, but with some good dice can definitely play in that category.  Their high cost really makes you play the blitzers OR the catchers.  If you try to play both you can't really have the bear.  I enjoy them quite a bit but they're the type of team that makes you take a break from BB when they go bad!

Or make you think playing ogres is a good plan;)

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13 hours ago, Javelin said:

 

Their one trick is so amazing, I imagine it's tough to keep them balanced.  They were not intended to be a tier 1 team, but with some good dice can definitely play in that category.  Their high cost really makes you play the blitzers OR the catchers.  If you try to play both you can't really have the bear.  I enjoy them quite a bit but they're the type of team that makes you take a break from BB when they go bad!

 

My only blitzer died, so i am intending catchers only for the remaining games as you suggest. Seems a bit elfy, which i don`t particularly like, but at least will be a change. I`ve always been a hybrid fan, though latterly tending towards bash.

 

Yes i am currently considering a break, though a good win with my OCC Chorf`s last night has eased my feelings a little; one more game for them before i have to decide.

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Welp, there was no final Kislev vs Kislev game for me, as my opponent was so disillusioned by their season they just forfeited.

 

Aaaaand I'm switching teams (to Brets), because spending all your time to just get the basic skills is just lame, so I'm going the complete other direction!

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I effectively did the opposite, went from Brets to Kislev. Only stuck with them 3 seasons, if the peasants were av8 it would be more attractive, not keen on av7; plus the ridiculous wrestle on your only strength access players.  Prefer Humans to either.

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Just won 2 games in a row, something has gone wrong. Worried now i might decide not to re roll, nuffle played that trick on me last season.

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Two wins? I've just won 2 games as a fresh Kislev using a sucky 3 blitzers 1 catcher build and meeting elves. Although, I must admit, that the last two cancel each other out when elves don't realise those diving tackles :D 

 

And I hope this support group is worth the name when I start to lose these players that rolled doubles and stats before getting anything to help them stay alive ;(

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I used kislev in the cross platform match vs dorfs. Having 2 guard catchers made for a great defence. 2nd half i received but then every other hit was a removal for the dorfs. Lost 0-1 despite having a 50% down on the bc, but i skulled.

 

Kislev are amazing until they arnt..

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I might have a Kislev syndrome. It's similar to stockholm syndrome, however it revolves around playing kislev. You know that your mental health will shatter while you play them, and for some unexplained, masochistic reasons you like it.

I signed for up as a Kislev in Rebbl, after 3 games in preseason i have block blitzer dodge catcher +ma catcher (one turn as kislev - sweet ) and 2 linos with 5 spp ready to get wrestle/guard/+agi/+st. Wish me luck and Gods protect my mental health. I'm planning to go 4 blitzer 2 catchers 12 players as a final build - no bear this time.

 

On the bright side in side lino-based league i'm first with record 6-2-0 with last game remaining, so I can confirm my previous statement: Kislev linos are awesome.

Edited by Sliceanddice

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I play Kislev over in BBtactics.  I started off strong with a roster of 3 catches, bear, 4RR.  Then as soon as I dropped the bear and 1 catcher and replaced them with two blitzers I pretty much lost every other game.

 

I'm starting to think that blitzers are just too expensive to be worth it.  110k for AG3, ST3, AV8 no block. As soon as my blitzers are dead I plan on rolling with 4 catchers, Skaven style, and see how that goes.

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On 7/30/2019 at 2:54 AM, Francach said:

I play Kislev over in BBtactics.  I started off strong with a roster of 3 catches, bear, 4RR.  Then as soon as I dropped the bear and 1 catcher and replaced them with two blitzers I pretty much lost every other game.

 

I'm starting to think that blitzers are just too expensive to be worth it.  110k for AG3, ST3, AV8 no block. As soon as my blitzers are dead I plan on rolling with 4 catchers, Skaven style, and see how that goes.

 

Yeah, they are sooooo expensive.  I assume the STR access is eventually nice, but I've rarely kept one alive long enough to make use of it.  I normally play with one blitzer for the MB access, but I'm not sure its worth the TV bloat.  I tend to play them like slow skaven and I've had reasonable success that way.  But for a long term league like the OCC eventually you have a bad match and its too expensive to rebuild.  It's too bad because the blitzers are interesting players.

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Well I use my blitzers for guard rather than MB. Leap them into a cage first, follow up with a wrestle lineman who does the blitzing then try to recover the ball with a catcher if possible.

 

But yeah a lineman who rolls doubles can perform the same guard duty for cheaper.

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To bring the subject of my recently frequent rambling here, and to liven up non-vampire thread over here: I am likely to be first Kislev ever to compete for OCC's the grand prize next season. If I win the next match, it is certain. If I lose it, chorfs or pelves in my div need two wins to take my spot, and even then either of the lizards (#2 and #3 in ranking now) drawing or losig both of their matches lets me promote. Not sure what permutations there are if I draw, but it likely means I am in with 99% certainty.

 

My team not dying much during early seasons helped me a ton (I think only 3 to 5 deaths and perms from first 4 seasons). More recently I have managed to steal wins out of jaws of defeat despite bears and linemen dying in droves (bear and 2 linemen out just this last match) because my core group of professional revolutionaries have some of the best individual players that have ever played the game.

 

I attribute all my success to two things:

 

enUsIzr.png

(Russian tactic in the source, fittingly enough)

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Nice one! If you win grand prize i gotta reroll something else, but i hope you manage to get there.

 

Im fighting at 5th place in T5 atm, its pretty much best i was hoping when i joined, but nuffle hasnt been very kind to me.

 

If gobas loses his both matches and i manage win my last one i secure 5th place. And fireballproof chaos team has to lose/tie once so they cant steal my position. But i suppose im gonna be 6th, next season we will rise!

 

Having 140k in bank im pondering should i keep it, buy blitzer or buy bear. As facing brets next match bear could give some needed removals but at the cost of bloating. And without knowing what to face next season it is kinda risky leap there.

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Getting to compete over it and winning it are two different things. Frankly, I'd be happy if I just survive the next season and wont demote. And, even if I win, you should probably check what your team looks and feels like in and of itself before you reroll.

 

As for your money. My aim for a kislev team in long-form leagues like OCC is 4 blitzers, 3 catchers and 1 bench. Because players do die, MNGs happen and Kislev bloats anyway, I read my aim for 12 players per match as 14 total players. That way I don't have ever have too many loners unless a match is really, really bad. Also, because bear can take punches better than a lineman, dish out some damage (in theory anyway, never happened to me), is actually helpful against dodgy teams without blocking and attracts attention/blocks in general, I like to have a bear.

 

This mean that my ideal team is somewhere around 2400K in TV (have luck in reaching it, though), but even a more slim Kislev is in 1800K+ territory if it has any development. You're going to face bribes and wizards no matter what, and most opponents run out of good things to induce before Kislev runs out of good levels to take. Some people also go for silly things like master chef instead of a wizard and a bribe, if you give them large enough pile of inducement money.

 

Still, I'll likely wont hire a new bear even if I get the money for it — empty bank and 2000K+ TV causing spiraling expenses makes it a slow process. I am already at top, so I should aim to win at all costs instead of buying a new tank to, well, tank for my team. And I also need to replace one AV7 lineman at some point. Best argument for a new bear is if champs division ends up with a low number of kill-bash teams; my estimate gives 1 to 4 of those teams, depending on these last matches.

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Tv difference between my opponent and me is 70k in my favour and picking blitzer would give them 40k inducement and they have banked 60k. So i guess theyd go with babe.

 

They have 3 blodge pieces so DT could work against them but it depends how elvish play they do. Attleast in statistics they block lot more in match than me.

 

Bear could do the trick here for bashing, but their dauntless blitzers are against big guys.

 

I gotta watch some replays and decide what to do here.

 

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@J.J. Cash you did wonderfull choice and leaped from boring humans to jumping ones! But in the end it had to happen.

 

With 9 Kislev coaches we have chance to make difference.

We will make Kislev great again! (But making them great again would mean they were great in the first place..)

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Nearly halfway done of this season!

 

How is it going thus far you fellow masochists? What are your expectations for this season and will you all manage to reach em?

 

2-0-2 for me thus far and both of those loses were close to draw/win, but picking up the ball or going for it's were too much for me.

 

It should be possible to get to top 3 in tier 4B, but most likely ill end up at 4th spot.

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Welcome to the support group on one of the greatest race ever designed: Kislev Circus.

 

May your leaps land correctly! Carry on the flag of our proud race with pride!

 

Welcome @Joey Wevs and @JamesJenks92!

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Hey, Im a new guy to kislev, only played about 10 games in CCL as warmup but gone fully in with this team and one in ReBBL as well. After a few practice games i feel like although the bear start is probably slightly weaker overall, its the most fun, the viewers on Twitch love it, and its an early access to Mighty Blow. Anyone else got any tips and tricks for starting off with Kislev?

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Bear is like Rat Ogre. Some like some don't. I used to go 2 blitzers, 1-2 Catchers, 4 RR route which was pretty solid.

 

@Bouffon told to try 3 blitzers, 1 catcher and 3 RR route and attleast my first season in OCC were quite rocky with that roster. Would recommend if you want maximize SPP gain on blitzers and know really when to do certain stuff. (Took me 2 seasons in OCC and few CCL season, but im finally close to qualify in CCL with this roster. And i dont use bear with that roster.

 

On other hand my OCC team has bear, but im debating should i leave him as i dont see that much use on him.

 

I see the point as putting it as block-sponge but if he is KO'd its 140k TV away while lino could have done the same. Extra guard is helpfull but he wont be leaping into cages anyway.

 

I like to use my bear as marker, same as blitzers due prehensible chain and if opponents wont dodge it is MB block inc.

 

I personally wouldnt start with bear unless you need that MB early on if you are facing many agility/low arnoured teams.

 

Also solid advice is that know when to leap! Also if you dodge w/o RR you could also leap to get 2squares instead of 1 in case of failure. And leap takes allways 2 MA even if youd leap 1 square.

 

My protegee will add something, but here's some minor stuff that popped into my head

 

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appreciate the advice and support buddy :) Im going to have a longer look at the thread when i get a chance at work and see what nuggets i can pull from it. But at the very least, it cant go any worse than my opening game in reBBL. Dead bear and 6spps :)

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25 minutes ago, Ratamo said:

 

@Bouffon told to try 3 blitzers, 1 catcher and 3 RR route and attleast my first season in OCC were quite rocky with that roster. Would recommend if you want maximize SPP gain on blitzers and know really when to do certain stuff. (Took me 2 seasons in OCC and few CCL season, but im finally close to qualify in CCL with this roster. And i dont use bear with that roster.

 

You started from T5 where you had to mingle with experienced teams, you have build up quite a nice roster in couple of seasons and Kislev always has a rocky start. I would call my little experiment called Ratamo a huge success: 3-1-3 setup does work wonders.

 

 

As for you @JamesJenks92, here is a long and rambling general guide to Kislev in OCC and other long form leagues. Don't be afraid to ask of anything specific, but takes my word with some salt: I think I am good Kislev coach, but I am no means excellent.

 

 

Strength of Kislev lies in its catchers and blitzers. Catchers and their AG4 can get in and out of pretty much anywhere with their leap, and blitzers' initially bad looking starting skills complement simple blodge nicely. And blitzers can get simple blodge rather easily: they have normal access on all skills except passing (and mutations, of course). Getting all the blitzers and 2+ catchers to high level (preferably with few doubles for catchers and statups for everyone, but that is up to Nuffle) is what early Kislev is all about, after that they can actually focus on winning with those key players.

 

Blitzers have great many builds available to them, thanks to their wide skill access. At least two of them should go blodge, guard, sidestep/stand firm in my opinion. This gives you a guaranteed number of hard to hit guards that can dodge away to reposition 8/9 of the time and that can diving tackle any non-leaping opponent that tries to disengage without blocking. One blitzer should be killer with MB, block, tackle, PO skills (order may vary, but start with MB), because every team needs a one killer and jump up works nicely with PO. Last one, if not guard build, is the joker, I personally prefer blodge, tackle, frenzy, juggernaut for surfs and general utility. Killer build benetifs from +ST, any build (but especially my utilityjoker) benefits from +AG. Bonus armour and movement I would skip for blitzers.

 

Catchers go blodge, sidestep, fend, sure hands, catch. If doubles, guard and pass are both good skills, but guard is the far better option. Any statup except armour works great on them, but taking second +AG for AG6 might be a bit of an overkill.

 

Linemen are, as always, fodder to be fed to your opponent. Assuming they survive, they go wrestle, tackle and fend, one of them should have kick as first skill or after wrestle. Those with wrestle (and tackle, if needed) will act as your primary ball-sackers, because you shouldn't really care if they die and ball-sacking leaps into cages and such are risky. If they don't get doubles before 4th levelup, they are sackable, but I'd let the nature run its course and put them on the line of scrimmage duty. With doubles linemen take guard, dodge and sidestep/stand firm.

 

Note that I didn't mention a fouling piece. I wouldn't build a dirty player lineman with Kislev, but that is probably mostly me, I figure a one fouler could work  wonders if used corectly.

 

As for the bear... it is a tricky beast. I would never start with a bear, ever, but it becomes useful when your team develops. Bear naturally attracts some punches and each dead or permanently injured bear is likely one fewer dead or permanently injured blitzer or catcher, and those are the guys that need to stay alive. That is to say: bears exist to die first, killing being only secondary use for them. Downside of bears is that they will die when you meet more developed claw teams and that they cost a ton, you bank will be empty quite often. Bears will also bloat your TV to even higher than it would otherwise be, but living with stupidly high TV is part of the Kislev experience.

 

Your general tactics should be speed and manouvre. When receiving, try to get your ball carrier and some escorts behind the enemy team during the same turn so that you are safe but can score whenever. Try to stall as long as you can and score when neccessary. In defence you should threathen leaping action against their ball (remind your opponent of leaping if they don't remember/know Kislev). Trick is not to realise that threath of a leap unless it is a really good opportunity, but to force opponent into taking players away from pushing into anti-leap formation around the ball. This gives defending Kislev amazing flexibility to either defend normally against cautious enemy or to go for the sack against aggressive enemy.

 

Blitzers should be positioned quite evenly along the front so their jump up blocks from prone position and diving tackles get the maximum coverage. This is something that I do by instict nowadays, but required actual planning once upon a time.

 

Your team, when it gets good, will bloat like nothing else, but it is the good sort of bloat: only linemen and the bear can actually run out of good and decent skill picks without +STAT or doubles. Just be prepared to face bribes, fireballs and star players almost every match.

 

All this applies to long form leagues like OCC. In rez tournaments and shorter leagues Kislev can't play for that late term high TV success. 3 catchers and 1 blitzer build that plays more like elves might work on them, for example, but I have much less experience on those kind of leagues.

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