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Ogre Guide 2.0


Com Yarrick

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Hi Ogre Coaches

 

Well its time for another one of Yarrick's Guide to Ogre play again in a new 2.0 special...

 

To be honest i have played ogres for a very long time now, and in the last few months, i have learned a great deal. 

I have now played over 10 years with Ogres.

Once you get experienced with ogres, there are things you will realize what an ogre team can do, and what they can't do. 

It takes an age of practice and many many games to get familiar with the team, as in when to activate an ogre when to just leave them be etc.

As times gone on, i have changed my approach a little from my original ogre guide, but now my teams are taking on a new breed of ogre play instead of the normal conventional plays.

I am going to start with the builds, and it has come down to 2 builds really, i will not touch the 6 ogre build because it just takes way too long to get re-rolls in OCC, and also they are double the price after the first game, so here we go...

 

I normally start with a 5 Ogre 2 re-roll start, because 1, i have played enough game to know my re-roll management is really good, so i can get by with just 2 re-rolls to start, 5 ogres and 8 snotlings, so 13 players in total, No apoth to start as you can get that by game 1 or at least game 2.

The reason i start with this build is you want the Ogres to skill up, and having 5 is a good number to start with and hope you do not lose 1, plus you have 2 reserves and you will need them. This is also a very cost effective way to get a solid starting team, and then after ya apoth you only have 140k to go for the 6th Ogre and then as the team builds money, you can get the third re-roll etc and go from there. It is really a good starting build, but for experienced coaches, i would say as for people new to Ogres, i would do the next build.

 

The second build is more about the re-rolls. 4 ogres and 4 rerolls and 7 snotlings is actually the fastest way to build the team from a financial point of view, but because you are missing the 5th ogre takes longer to develop on the pitch, as you only have 4 ogres to start, and makes protecting the ball a little harder.

if you think about this build you really have all the re-rolls you need, and its all about the apoth and 2 ogres, so you are looking at getting 330k to get a full team, and that's if we do not take many cas or ogre deaths. 

So after this build you basically need 330k to get 6 ogres and 4 re-rolls, that's what it takes to get the team to where you want it.

Where the first build is 140k for the last ogre and then another 280K for the 2 re-rolls, 50K for the apoth, so ya looking then at 470k, so as you can see there is a big difference on what you need to be at the same level as far as Ogres to re-roll ratio, so the choice is yours to make 

 

In OCC with rolling on seasons, any of the 2 builds are great, i would not do it any other way as i have played every possible build with ogres, and after countless games these are really the 2 best builds.

Oh there is a 3rd option of 4 Ogres 3 rerolls and an apoth, taking you to 12 players to start, but again thats another 280k you need for 2 ogres and then 140k for the last reroll bringing you to 420k, so now you can see the prices on what it takes you to get to the 6 ogres and 4 rerolls, as thats really where u want to be...

 

i would go for the first build because you want your ogres to develop as well as getting to the 6th ogre asap, and these are all long builds. So now you know what that cost is and how long it will approximately take to get there...

 

So that's where i start on building my ogres any of the 3 builds works pretty well just depends where you as a coach see value on the builds...

 

On to development...

 

There are many ways to build Ogres, i go the BT Guard route because really that's a good place to start, i use to go BT, but i have changed my play style a little... I use to say do BT first because of its benefits, for if you get Stat increases, but i kinda moved away from this as of recently because well i felt the skill is only used in desperate situations and not always a benefit to the ogre team, tho i still take it but its now my second skill. The none double skill i take as the first skill is Guard and i will explain why...

Guard will get you more 3 dice blocks instead of putting the Gnoblars in harms way and that's where i have been seeing the most benefit, plus it compliments the strength you already have.

The Ogres fail to win games not because of BH but because of 1/9 blocks, there will be games where BH  does lose you the game, but mostly for me in my experience its the 1/9, 2 dice blocks that lose games and having guard to start is a good place to start, as the ogres can help each other out...

 

So Guard BT Grab or stand firm are all good places to start. prob wanna take one piling on ogre too, but i get some guard first and then get a killer later on you can get one early it will help skill the ogre up alot quicker.

I prefer the more conservative approach as in keeping my ogres upright, after 2 guard i would get a piling on ogre on a none guard piece.

The Guard lets you control the blocking game and that's where ogres will win out if played right...

 

As far as doubles go Block for me is number one skill for ogres to get... i hear a lot of oh get tackle or frenzy i am telling you take block, its the best skill for the ogres and keeps the 1/9 at bay, i use to not take it but if you can get block early in development, for later on it just makes ogres a lot more reliable upfront. So please take block where you can, i try to get block on at least  4 ogres because we need 2 ogres for what i call positional Ogres and these come depending on the skill roles.

 

Positional Ogres

 

These come depending on ya skill ups. The AG3 ogre now i would only take this Ogre if you already have BT.

I find 40K increase in the early stages of development not exactly worth it, as much as i love ag3 ogres its nothing a snotling cannot already do, and this is where you have to make the tough decisions... if i roll an ag increase now as a first skill i do not take it, as hard as that is to swallow, a guard ogre is going to give more back to the team than an ag3 ogre will, now i know you will say oh what if he rolls an ag increase again, well that would be great but in over 10 years i have played BB i only had 1 ag4 Ogre so the likely hood that you will get that is very very slim.

You do want to have an ag3 Ogre but like i said i only would take it if you have BT first because that makes that ogres easier to get away and keeps you up with the gnoblars.... so a ball carrying ogre i love them and hate them they are great for when you play against high agility teams where the gnoblars are easy targets, but against the bash teams a gnoblar is better to hold the ball. Plus no BH to score that's another thing

plus you want the ogres hitting kinda hard if hes holding the ball.

 

Yes you want an ag3 Ogre but BT MUST be on there first before considering it or i feel its just a waste of TV for what you need the ogres to do.

 

The strength 6 Ogre

Now this one i would prob go block on instead of the st6 but if the ogre has BT and block already then st6 is awesome. st6 lets you get 3 dice blocks way easier than st5 so if you got a few guarders around then yep st6 is great but again if you do not have BT then i would just take block on this piece and go from there. If he has BT then yeah the 3+ cage dive is a useful tool and you have it, but again these are situational, like i said above remember ogres lose more games with the 1/9 so negating that with block is a good way of correcting the ogres blocking game. Definately if he already has block for sure st6 or tackle is a way to go here...

 

The Pass Ogre

 

This is by far my most favourite Ogre

I always try and make 1 ogre a Pass ogre but before i do this ogre i would make sure you have an ag4 gnoblar. again if you roll a double and do not have an ag4 gnoblar then we go block.

This ogres has the ability to win games in this play style hands down. if you do not roll doubles and you have some block ogres already then yeah you could go strong arm and then hope he rolls a double down the road, but the pass Ogre is to keep the re-rolls on the landing, like i said, only if you have an ag4 gnoblar, then if you get a double on a rookie ogre or a BT one yeah definately take the pass it will come in handy when you need it...

 

Killer Ogre

 

This Ogre needs Juggs BT and frenzy or pile on juggs block etc, anyway you need a killer piece so this is where this Ogre comes in

I prefer the block Tackle ogre if you can get him

some people go BT Juggs Frenzy Piling on etc but its really up to you where you want these players, i start with block ogres and then see where the development leads me, that's the best way to go...

Also the Piling on Jump up as a first double is not a bad combo either and worth considering, as with Jump up he gets to move normally if down and can make blocks, from the ground, so there is definately room for this ogre..

 

As far as extra MV on an ogre or AV, its depends on what skills he has when you roll these. Unless its a double i would go block on every chance you got, but if he has BT guard then maybe MV6 is a good idea or maybe you want a normal skill. But again i would only take the MV if the ogre has already some skills, also MV 6 has a tendency to put u out of position from the rest of the ogres or team, so be careful. 

 

Alot of this is the same as the last Ogre Guide but with a few more tweeks in development. Since BB2 LE came out, i took ag on all the ogres when i rolled them as i had them on 3 Ogres. We took a few deaths and to be honest i have 1 ag3 ogre now and hes very well developed. To be honest its all you really need, the others were a waste and they have died since then so now i am building toward more guard so the ogres can get Spps on blocks instead of dodging away which is more risky...

 

Below is some of the builds to consider when building ogres anyway .

Hope this guide helps anyone coming to play OCC, as us proud Ogres Coaches have to help each other out best we can.

 

Ogres 

 

Throwing Ogre, Pass, Strong arm, Break Tackle.                                                                                

Blitzer Ogre, Break Tackle, Frenzy Block/Juggs Piling On                                                                                    

Blocker, Block Guard Grab/BT, Tackle                                                                                                

Ball Carrier Ogre, Block Sure hands Break Tackle 

 

Ultimate Pass Ogre: Pass, Strong arm, Break Tackle, Nerves of Steel 

Ultimate Ball Carrier Ogre: Block, Dodge, AG3, Sure Hands, Pro,  

Ultimate Ogre: Block, Guard, Tackle, Pro, Dodge    

Ultimate Ogre: Block, Tackle Frenzy, Break tackle, Pro 

Ultimate ST Ogre: Block, +1ST, +1ST, Break, Tackle, Guard,Tackle

 

My favourite Runt builds are as follows

 

Scoring Runt: Catch, Sure feet, Sprint                                                                                     

Foul Runt, Sneaky Git, Dirty Player                                                                                        

Defense Runt: Catch, Diving Tackle, Diving catch                                                                  

 

Ultimate Runt: AG4, Catch, Sure Feet, Sprint, Block, +1MV

Ultimate Runt AG5, Catch, Sure Feet, Sprint 

Ultimate Runt: Catch Pass Block, Diving Tackle, Diving Catch

 

Edited by Com Yarrick
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Oh there is a 3rd option of 4 Ogres 3 rerolls and an apoth, taking you to 12 players to start, but again thats another 280k you need for 2 ogres and then 140k for the last reroll bringing you to 420k, so now you can see the prices on what it takes you to get to the 6 ogres and 4 rerolls, as thats really where u want to be...

 

I actually started with his one, and in an "Eternal League" that runs (essentially) forever, I think it's a pretty good start. You mention Ogre casualties a few times and getting the Apo from the get-go certainly helps in that regard. Also, I've been running 3 re-rolls and my first Gnoblar with doubles got Leader and it's worked out pretty good so far. He's still alive! I'm feeling the 3 re-rolls, haven't gotten the urge to pop that 4th yet. Especially because that's another 140k added tot he team value that i'd rather avoid.

 

Quote

The Ogres fail to win games not because of BH but because of 1/9 blocks

 

I just want to add that, yeah... playing Ogres has gotten me terrified to make 2-die blocks most of the time. Unless you get yourself some Block of course!

 

Quote

So please take block where you can

 

Yup.

 

Overall you make good points, as per usual. And also, as usual, you have a few ideas that are so next level that they'll probably end up causing more harm than good. But if that isn't the true Ogre spirit, then I don't know what is.

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Thanks C2MC. You have to retain some outta the box thinking because if you do not you end up not doing crazy plays that can be the difference between an ogre draw and and ogre win... i feel tho in league play not the internal league that having 4 rerolls tho when you can get an apoth in 1 to 2 games is better than forking out 140k for a reroll, but like i said i end up taking the 2 RR build anyway because well i want the ogres to be developed, or i have just played ogres for so long i am comfortable with 2 RR for me to start with. 

Edited by Com Yarrick
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  • 2 months later...

FWIW, I played with 4 ogres 4 rerolls, and constantly felt the missing board presence of not having MOAR BIG GUYS. Would definitely do the 1st roster these days, skilled up ogres is worth more than being more cost-efficient about the (ridiculously priced) rerolls.

Edited by Juriel
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6 hours ago, C2MC said:

 

Are we placing bets on how many Ogres die before you'll be able to buy an Apo?

 

Wouldn't that most likely be just the first match? Because technically, as soon as you have 50k in the bank the very first time, you are able to buy an Apo?

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well the 4-4 is a good start if you can get the apoth after the first game then all ya have to focus on is Ogres 

5/8/2 is great as well thats what i normally start with cause i played them long enough to know what to expect

Edited by Com Yarrick
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  • 2 months later...

Loved playing ogres back in the day.  Had a team in OCC for some time, played them on live leagues for a whIle and even finished a season in 2nd place once.  

 

One question I have on your 5/8 start.  You mention this is to "skill up ogres faster".  I assume you mean not just stats (that a player not on the team can't cause a casualty), but to optimize random mvp assignment (which is no longer an issue in tabletop of course, so this is more of online blood bowl issue).

 

In having 2 extra snotlings  (or whatever they're officially called currently), instead of a 5/6 start, you lower the chances of your ogres getting the MVP by approximately 7%.  Are those two extra players on the roster to help promote winning your first game?  That's a fair statement to make if it's the case.  Especially if you never plan on your 6th ogre.  7% chance is wOrth better odds of winning, or is a tradeoff you might be willing to make.  

 

Is the roll of the dice to replace MNG players immediately until you have a game with none and then buy the apothecary?  If not, that 2nd game you might still be back at 5/6/2, and be down 40k anyway, without that 7% mvp chance for your ogre.

 

Just running some numbers.  I very rarely start a team over 11 players, if there are ones that n33d to skill up more 

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8 hours ago, Fweddy said:

Loved playing ogres back in the day.  Had a team in OCC for some time, played them on live leagues for a whIle and even finished a season in 2nd place once.  

 

One question I have on your 5/8 start.  You mention this is to "skill up ogres faster".  I assume you mean not just stats (that a player not on the team can't cause a casualty), but to optimize random mvp assignment (which is no longer an issue in tabletop of course, so this is more of online blood bowl issue).

 

In having 2 extra snotlings  (or whatever they're officially called currently), instead of a 5/6 start, you lower the chances of your ogres getting the MVP by approximately 7%.  Are those two extra players on the roster to help promote winning your first game?  That's a fair statement to make if it's the case.  Especially if you never plan on your 6th ogre.  7% chance is wOrth better odds of winning, or is a tradeoff you might be willing to make.  

 

Is the roll of the dice to replace MNG players immediately until you have a game with none and then buy the apothecary?  If not, that 2nd game you might still be back at 5/6/2, and be down 40k anyway, without that 7% mvp chance for your ogre.

 

Just running some numbers.  I very rarely start a team over 11 players, if there are ones that n33d to skill up more 

 

Hi Fweddy 

 

Its more for the fact that starting with 5/8 is that with more ogres you have a chance of injuring more players with 5 ogres instead of 4, plus it keeps you from being over powered by assists by having 5 ogres, the 2 extra snotlings give you a bit of a buffer for cas against u, so that you have something to field second half more than anything... plus if they die well they die better them than an ogre. 

 

Anyway the point is the more ogres you have earlier on the more likely they are to skill up due to doing cas, i never worry about the MVP as its random so where ever that goes it goes.. its more for having 5 ogres and getting an apoth asap.

 

You wanna get to 6 ogres asap but i go the safe route first as in have a bench and 5 ogres to start you just have to hope that nothing hits the ogres as far as a perm injury goes. But i normally come away more times than not with a healthy squad of ogres

 

Edited by Com Yarrick
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Fair enough. :)  I have no problem with the 5 Ogres, 3 or 4 just doesn't give you a feel for anything other than being a punching bag.  But going 5/8/2, begs to ask "would 5/6/2 with 4 fan factor be beneficial to win games more?  5/7/2 with saving 20k for a apoth after first game?" etc.

Just an optimization question.  Starting team gold isn't gone if you don't spend it all in team creation (at least not online, not sure on the BB2016 rules)

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the prob with putting money into fan factor is that will goes up and down it also creates bloat now what i do do is put some in assistant coaches and cheerleaders when you reach higher TV because you will need that to try and negate the halfling master chef a bit

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