The Ancient Ways of Ball Handling

[MrStarck]

So are i am, entering a league for the first time, with my all time favorite team : Khemri.

 

I'm far from being an experienced coach. Haven't played a lot of game, haven't played tabletop either, most of the things i know come from videos made by AndyDavo. After trying out a couple of teams, Khemri felt like exactly what i was looking for. They are clumsy, slow, but i do love the carefull positionning, making sure that out get the most out of your Tomb Guardians, protecting the ball because you can't be sure that you will ever pick it up again...

 

The team i brought to OCC ↓

 

The 4 Tomb Guardians are fairly obvious. After playing a bit with Khemri i'm really uncomfortable going on the pitch with less than 3 rerolls, especially in the beginning. So those two being set in stone, i was left with few choices.

 

Could've gone with no Thro-Ra, but since i wanted to win some games i had to at least have one. Then if i take a Blitz-Ra, i'm left with one of those two options :

1. Stay with 1 Blitz-Ra / 1 Thro-Ra, fill the rest with skeletons, 30k in the bank to get faster to the second Blitz-Ra
2. Get 1 Blitz-Ra / 2 Thro-Ra, fill the with skeletons, no bank.

 

In the end i went with 2 Thro-Ra, i've lost some painful games with a 1 Thro-Ra start due to an early injury (Cheeky Rock from the crowd anyone ?).

 

 

Here is my division :

 

 

•   Kia Sidhe - Couronne Croissants - Bretonnian
•   Zorgar - Tugas – OCC - Necromantic
•   Nibenon - Herlechin's Hunt - Necromantic
•   Fweddy - Happy Kitty Bunny Pony - Necromantic
•   TheFoehammer - Underground Champions - Undead
•  Forvisk - Shot Throught the Heart - Dark Elf
•   Bishop1222 - Wooo let the dogs out? - Necromantic
•   Varrus - The Southern Sentinels - Bretonnian
•   Velihopea - The Sour Wench [OCC] - Dark Elf
•   MrStarck - Ball Handling Masterclass - Khemri

 

 

MD1 : MrStarck - Ball Handling Masterclass  VS  Velihopea - The Sour Wench [OCC]

 

His team :

 

As far as i can tell, this gentleman knows what he's doing. I'm afraid i'm not faring too well against Dark Elves as Khemri, so i've prepared a very simple plan. I see one of those two three loosing me the game :

1. Exposing Skeletons too much, and some AV7 roll later, i get to play with only half of my team
2. Bad positionning, ball going down and not scoring on my drive (thus losing at least 1-0)
3. Not being carefull enough and getting players surfed by the Witch

 

We'll how it goes. All advices will be appreciated, i'll keep you updated after the game.

[Doomy77]

Good luck! I've yet to try Khemri but your plan seems decent.

[Bouffon]

Dark elves are a tough opponent, being elves and all, but they are also the bashiest and slowest of the elf teams. When you have the ball, you can still rule the bash by positioning tomb guards evenly in your formation. When defending, their relatively slow speed for elves is kind of a plus, but you still most likely need to have a good spread if you want to prevent the TD instead of forcing a quick one, and spreading av7 players around can end up bad.

 

And as a disclaimer: I have 4 to 8 matches played as Khemri, so results of vague wisdom not guaranteed. Have a good one.

[Borke]

Vague wisdom: Infinitely better than concrete ignorance.

[Doomy77]

Newly published playbook:

https://bloodbowlstrategies.com/en/khemris-playbook/

[Javelin]

If you cage with the TG then your skeletons will be exposed.  Try to cage with the skeletons and protect your team with the TG.  That way he'll have to bring over two assists to get one of them down...

[MrStarck]

Thanks of lot, and i concur :

On 11/25/2019 at 6:02 PM, Borke said:

Vague wisdom: Infinitely better than concrete ignorance.

 

Even on a very basic level. Let's say you play a decent amount of "control team" (as opposed to the team that like to pass and move the ball around), you can envision the way this type of team could win a game and still have valuable inputs.

 

And thanks a lot Doomy, i'll dive into that right way !

[Doomy77]

Enjoy. I follow that site via Facebook and that popped up in my feed today. Read it and although some of the English is a bit rough there’s a lot of good stuff in there.

[Bouffon]

Terrible English the international language, as one teacher used to say.

[Gobas]

About that Khemrii stuff.

I Love that link that Doomy gave us.

Only thing I do difrently is begining:

2x Thro-Ras - they are barely better than simple skeleton and they tend to hoard SPP I start with one of them

1x Blitz-Ra - they are to important to take only one. You need control the pitch and with one Block on team is much harder. You need them ASAP to gain any skills and start doing their job (kill, maim, injure).

 

12 Players vs 3 Re-Rolls

I know Re-Rolls are expensive but when you outnumbered as Khemrii you are in deep troubles anyway and one re-roll will not change this, you can't do elvish magic when with one re roll you dodge couple of times, pick up ball and score.

12 Players is must for me, I need to have full pitch even with few injuries, I need extra bench to foul crap out of my opponents.

BDW you got absurd numer of Dead Walking teams in Tier

Those Bretionians and Dark Elves must feel like fighting vs shambling horde

 

 

[MrStarck]

First match is done, sadly i've lost to Velihopea's elves 2-1.

 

 

All things considered the result has been fair, Velihopea preyed on my mistakes during the first half therefore it was an expected result. A short running of the game sections :

 

            1. I win the toss and choose to kick

 

Given the lack of skills on both teams, i was fairly confident that we wouldn't hurt each other too much, so it would be 11 v 11 for a long time. The idea was defending while trying to trap a couple of elves and beat them up. At half-time either be 1-0 with numerical advantage or 0-0. Then grind towards 1-1 or 1-0. The 2-1 in my favor would be considered only if the elves would miss 2-3 players, which was unlikely.

 

            2. Pitch invasion, 6 of my players are stunned and 1 of his get's the rough treatment from the crowd too. The blitz adds another stun on the Blitz-Ra.

 

I quickly decided that defending with 4 players was foolish. Instead i regrouped the 2 Tomb Guardians in the center (as much as i could) and then took the block that were offered to me. The idea was offering him one of those 2 things : an uncomfortable cage on the side with Tomb Gardians in the center and my players getting up behind his cage, trapping him on the sideline (surf opportunity, the strengh advantage would've given me some bash i believe) ; OR a quick score, giving me 6 turn to retaliate. He chose the quick score.

 

            3. Extra team reroll for the elves, this is where my major fucks-up happen.

 

I was trying real hard to setup properly the 3 dices on the line and... a) didn't manage to do so, b) did not cover the flanks properly on my first turn. I got what was coming : didn't pick-up the ball, it bounced on another player and then it went towards the elves, leaving it in 2 tackle zone but clearly open for the taking. I was too scared of the Witch and should have covered the flank properly (with players).

Even pulling Tomb Gardians back didn't do much, the elves managed to make the ball bounce through 2 players and it went back in their camp again. He quickly pick it up.

 

During my turn i messed up my defense again, not spreading enough. A gang foul turn into a stun and my player is expelled.

 

Using his superior speed, he outmanoeuvre me and get on the line, ready to score (and do so on turn 7). Well done by him.

 

            4. Gentle Gust of wind for the second half. This were i drive the ball slowly towards the endzone.

 

There isn't much to say about the rest of this game. Given that i coulnd't win, i decided to pratice the slow Khemri advance towards the endzone. It worked well.

 

 

Conclusion

 

Dices were balanced as far as i can tell, @Velihopea was a very pleasant opponent, props to him !

 

What i'm happy with :

1. Not presenting any surf opportunity
2. Good offensive drive
3. Only few blocks on skeletons and i suffered only 1 KO, not bad.

 

What i should look to improve :

1. Generating more blocks. With 33 blocks, 6 armor breaks being only stuns (including 2 stun from fouls) , i don't think i did well enough on that department.
2. Working on my 3 dices on the line. My positionning on the starting line was below average at best.

 

What needs an urgent fixing :

1. Defence against agile teams. It was really bad, i gave way too much opportunities.
2. Counting squares regarding the opposing pieces possibilities to considere how far and where they can go.

 

For those who care to dig deeper, here is the replay : https://gofile.io/?c=u14FQN

 

When next week rolls around, i'll keep you updated on the next match-up !

Edited November 29, 2019 by MrStarck

[Doomy77]

Maximising blocks is a double-edged sword with hardly any Block on your team. Khemri are bad at bashing.

[Bouffon]

There are enough software out there to parse those replays at least three dozen times, but if you want link a simple replay, I suggest linking to Gosplinspy. This or this precisely.

 

If you can do a solid Khemri advance, you're a way ahead of me then, and have the core skill for the team as coach. Defending against agile teams is always hard, and is doubly so for Khemri; dwarves can and must spread their players into a wide area to be able to converge any and everywhere, but Khemri lacks high AV needed to survive in a spread out formation.

[Velihopea]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:33 PM, MrStarck said:

Dices were balanced as far as i can tell, @Velihopea was a very pleasant opponent, props to him !

 

 

I think you played really well. Saying dices were balanced is pretty admirable, since elf BS truly happened big time in the decisive second score. Getting that ball bounce out of a middle of a horde of Khemri players was just insane.

 

I'm not a Khemri player so my opinions on the following can easily be wrong:

You protected skeletons well, although on defensive I would have put TG's on the line, since ST3 team really cannot do anything to them. On the whole you generated pressure and 3d blocks well and did not give out any needless hits or surfs.

[Bouffon]

Elf BS can happen with balanced dice, that is why it is elf BS and not just normal BS. That bounce, however, sounds more like normal BS than elf one.

[MrStarck]

Thanks a lot for the link Bouffon, i'll use to in the future regarding replays and stuff ! To be honest it's even better than the replay on the Blood Bowl client since i can go back and forth between two actions. Really good piece of software.

 

8 hours ago, Velihopea said:

I think you played really well. Saying dices were balanced is pretty admirable, since elf BS truly happened big time in the decisive second score. Getting that ball bounce out of a middle of a horde of Khemri players was just insane.

 

I looked back at the replay before posting, and past the bounce, you recovering the is just a 3+ / 2+ with a team reroll for the pick up and Dodge for the 2+.

This doesn't look like an elf BS moment to me. You carefully cleared the path, your defense was ready in case you miss the ball pick up and it was also ready in case you do pick it up and you want to retreat behind your line. It was a well executed plan.

 

Now on the bounce part, instead of thinking : "Yeah there was a low chance of this specific series of bounce happenning, it was BS that's it." I'd rather see this mistake.

 

On my first pick up attempt i moved up the skeleton to create a 3 dice for the TG (as displayed with the white arrows). Instead i should've done the red arrows moves... or better, they should've been in this kind of setup from the get go. You wouldn't have had such an easy team invading my half of the pitch.

 

Then i manage to mess-up something else

 

The following turn i blitz with the Blitz-Ra (red circle guy) and follow up. If i don't, i can position him one square above (red arrow), still being able to mark the ball with a third player while not offering the push play you made that is displayed on this screenshot.

 

So yeah, i truly believe the dices were balanced and you winning was just because you were the better coach.

 

 

Thanks for the advices, i can appreciate your point of view and unterstand what could bothers an elf coach against Khemri. I usually never position TG on the line just to be able to move them where i want to. And you're right, you probably wouldn't have consumed that many player to block some TG now that i think about it. Maybe i should try to put some on the LoS against weaker team and see how it goes position wise.

 

See you guys soon for MD2 !

[Bouffon]

Chainpushing is truly an art within an art. The one picture above is nothing extreme, but when I learned to scan the pitch for them, either for my own use or to prevent my opponents from using them against me, that helped my play tremendously.

 

Also, nice reporting.

[MrStarck]

MD2 : MrStarck - Ball Handling Masterclass  VS   TheFoehammer - Underground Champions

His team (20k in bank) :

 

My team (20k in bank) :

 

If i understand properly the rule regarding journeymen cost, he should have just enough in inducement to get a Babe (950 TV with the journeyman).

One of the Mummy being out is a big advantage for me. Not only does it removes a STR 5 player from the pitch, but it's also a Mighty Blow that won't be able to touch my skeletons. On the other mummy he has Guard, i should be really aware of it since i'm not likely to be able to push around a STR 5 player if he has some sort of support.

 

The key to win :

• Isolate this Guard mummy, don't cluster around it, therefore giving value to that skill
• Protect the Blitz-Ra, he'll be a pivotal player in knocking down the Ghouls
• Don't give-up skeleton blocks

To me Undead look like a slow and methodical team with Ghouls that can make a quick dash towards the endzone. I should be wary of the flanks but not as much since the 3 Ghouls can't run wild behind my lines without support. He has one skeleton, i should keep an eye on his position since pushing a couple of time AV 7 could yield some results.

 

Other than that i haven't too much of an elaborate plan. Stop him from scoring, score on my drive. That's it .

[Juriel]

Whoa, nice post-match self-analysis. And nice links, other people, I wasn't aware of those sites.

 

Losing to DE in particular is no surprise - all the regular elf options, now with starting skills and all-around AV8 to make life as easy as possible. Then you add in that lopsided pitch invasion... That said, you should've put TGs on the LOS on defense, as DE cannot run that far away from them, and are unlikely to want to commit enough people on bringing them down with 1d blocks. Later, half of every elf team has Guard so this becomes a moot point, but more reason to try and press what fleeting advantage you have now.

 

Undead missing a Mummy is the best possible news you could have. Sure, Blitz-Ras are AG-busted Wights (literally, they cost the same!), but now you at least have a proper ST advantage to mark their players with. Don't get too excited about chasing their single skeleton - AV7 gets stunned more often than AV8, but Thick Skull means that they don't leave the pitch any more often. The best way to get rid of their Ghouls is to force them into making AG3 dodges, and let them injure themselves.

[MrStarck]

Hey Juriel, i liked your Team blog very much !

 

Thanks for the advices, yeah i should really try this Tomb Guardian on the line thing. I play Dark Elves again during MD3, i'll try it. Good point on the Thick Skull for the Skeleton, i wasn't considering that. I'll definitely look for Ghouls to mark and blitz, i'm keeping my hopes too high in that regards since if i was the Undead player i would protect them (no regen, no apo).

 

Match is Wenesday, see you soon !

Edited December 3, 2019 by MrStarck

[MrStarck]

Busy week for me, finally get some time to write down the report...

 

And man do i feel bad about that game !

 

 

Mordrek Goblin Spy link to the game.

 

The polar opposite of the last game. My defense was good, my offense was bad. The defensive plan was quite simple, i wanted to block his advance by representing a broad "L" shape when he goes down on a flank. If he comits to a flank... great, i can smash him against the line in a brawl where my superior strengh would help me pushing him into the crowd. If he doesn't, he has to go around the top of the "L" to change side, therefore losing a bit of ground.

I did not have anything special for the offense, just the slow Khemri push. That's how it went :

 

            1. TheFoehammer win the toss, chose to receive. Changing Weather : Nice. Touchback.

 

The ball goes on a Ghoul and the danse around the pitch begin. I'm fairly proud of my defense, dices were kind enough to grant me a KO on a both down between a Skeleton and a Zombie. I make sure to trap any STR 3 along Tomb Gardians, forcing him to dodge every turn with an AGI 3 or 2 player or to accept some 1D blocks in order to free his players.

I did sweat at turn 6 when TheFoehammer made a play i didn't see coming : a couple of dodges into a long pass play. Sure it was a 24% success play with a team reroll (Samba says so !), but it was pretty scary and almost worked. Props to him to think about it !

 

End of the half without anything else happening.

 

            2. KO Zombi doesn't come back. Both team gets a reroll, touchback.

 

Ball goes to a TG, i'm blessed with 2 injury in the first 2 turns. From that point i should have had the game in the pocket right ? +3 players, ball on TG, what else do i need ?

I woke up on turn 14 with this situation.

 

 

I actually forgot that it was Tomb Guardian with MVT 4. Which mean i had to move right now.

 

Below average decision making in this unusual situation opened opportunities to some extent.

 

TheFoehammer did what he had to since i couldn't move fast and cover the ball properly : he threw 4x -2D block over 2 turns and finally got the ball down. On turn 16 i cleared a path to pick-up the ball and score. In true Khemri fashion, the Thro-Ra fucked up the pick-up to express his anger towards the lack of protection for the Tomb Guardian that held the ball previously.

 

0-0.

 

Conclusion

 

Dices were slanted a little towards me. I should've won that game but i fucked it up. Since the dust has settled i had a little bit of time to think about this game. This unusual situation made me forget that i had to gain ground faster given that it was a Tomb Guardian with the ball (not a Thro-Ra).

I'd put that towards my inexperience, i.e. i should play more games.

 

Thanks @TheFoehammer for the game. Despite the rough start of the second half he stayed civil. I got what i deserved with that draw, but i have no doubt that a better coach would've gotten a win easily.

 

What i'm happy with :

1. Trapping low strengh player along my defensive line was a success, it helped me creating more blocks
2. The "L" thing i thought about worked really well, i'm proud of it. Although i'm fairly sure it won't work that well against agile teams (should try it)
3. Didn't gave up Skeleton blocks too much (1D at worse)

What i should look to improve :

1. It will sound absolutely stupid but... keep track of the turns.
2. Be consistent with counting player squares to check how far they can go.

What needs urgent fixing :

1. Get some experience, play more / watch more Blood Bowl.
2. Do not try to be fancy untill i get better at the game

 

That's it, MD3 will be against Dark Elves, see you all soon !

[Bouffon]

20 minutes ago, MrStarck said:

TheFoehammer made a play i didn't see coming : a couple of dodges into a long pass play. Sure it was a 24% success play with a team reroll (Samba says so !), but it was pretty scary and almost worked. Props to him to think about it !

 

Passing is better less you opponent expects it. If you play high elves, never pass. If you play some other elves, pass only when you absolutely must. If you are humans, do it sometimes. If you are ag3 without pass, do it with abandon. If you are dorfs, farm spp out of it. If you are Khemri, move the ball only by passing.

 

Or perhaps not, but I've seen game winning passes from Khemri and dorfs that puny mind says are unlikely but cold math puts the chance of success somewhere around 30% and failure costs nothing really. Do that against elves only when in a bind, though.

[TheFoehammer]

@MrStarck

 

you played a good game on defense, i just couldn't seem to get around the corner - not having my 2nd mummy meant i couldn't drive and open a path.  that pass play was pretty much desperation and of course i make the difficult pass roll and fuck up the easy catch XD 

 

the only thing i would say on offense is you probably should've had your TG hand the ball off, with the numbers advantage and half my team out of position i think you probably would've scored - don't feel too bad though i lose track of what turn it is all the time and realize i've neglected to get somebody in postion to score until it's too late.  

 

now i'll have both mummies next game but i'm down to just one ghoul so that's gonna be fun :(

[Bouffon]

17 minutes ago, TheFoehammer said:

he only thing i would say on offense is you probably should've had your TG hand the ball off, with the numbers advantage and half my team out of position i think you probably would've scored

 

When your high-value AG1 player has the ball and needs a level (and they always need a level), handing it off is a desperation move in itself, just like that pass. And we're speaking Khemri here, you can only hand off to ag2 players, which is 25% chance of a lost ball and a turnover with a reroll. Good advice if this was any other team, mind.

[MrStarck]

4 hours ago, Bouffon said:

Or perhaps not, but I've seen game winning passes from Khemri and dorfs that puny mind says are unlikely but cold math puts the chance of success somewhere around 30% and failure costs nothing really. Do that against elves only when in a bind, though.

 

That's a good piece of advice. I almost act as if passing the ball wasn't an option for my team. It's a rough dice roll for sure, but desperate times call for desperate mesures.

 

34 minutes ago, TheFoehammer said:

now i'll have both mummies next game but i'm down to just one ghoul so that's gonna be fun :(

 

Yeah the 2nd Mummy was a big loss, even with only 1 Ghoul i'm sure you can make something out of the next game, just a slow and steady Zombie swarm. Good luck with that !