Infamy, Infamy...they've All Got It Infamy.

[Captain Thorrek]

Still, we have our own open league now. Granted, the traffic has all but completely died since the season began, but if more coaches join up, we could get the league fired up.

[dode]

Hobnail - if you don't disco yourself then you have a lower chance of being in a match which ends in a disco.  Obvious comment is obvious.  To assume that you'll get a lower disco rate in Nagg than you would in places like FOL just because you personally don't disco, though, would be false.

 

The fact of the matter is that the overall disco rate in Nagg and Auld are up at the 50% mark.  That's all I've claimed and it is based on fact.  

[dode]

For approximate comparison, MM games in Auld have a 50% completion rate; challenge games (i.e. both players have agreed to the game beforehand) have a 70% completion rate; Nagg has a 50% completion rate; FOL has an 80% completion rate.
 
Of the ~50% incomplete in MM games, about 3% of games can be put down to "sync errors" and "both disconnects" with reasonable certainty. 20% are abandoned "properly", with another 8% disconnected by one or the other player. 17% are disconnected at the pre-match stage. About 52% get completed.

[jounisii]

Yours humble truly has to agree with hobs here. Nagg ain't that bad. While playing PPC in nagg, I've noticed that the DC rate is somewhere between 10 and 20%. That might be linked to the fact that most of the matches are played in highish/high TV level.

 

Assholes, those are plenty tho

[Pidpad]

Matches at lower TVs tends to end in an abandon/disconnect a lot more often. I'm still playing most of my games at starting TV in Nagg.

 

I imagine it gets better at somewhat higher TVs (where I imagine Hobnail play).

 

The reason the numbers are as high is that most games are of low TV. (well, until Dode shows statistics that show my thinking to be wrong )

[Hobnail]

Obvious comment is obvious.

It's not necessarily obvious....Claims that playing in Nagg will earn u 50% disco rates will only do one thing - discourage well intentioned coaches from playing there.

Yes ur claims are based on fact. However, I am pointing out that it is easy to positively impact on your figures to a significant extent if one coach plays the game out.

[dode]

Claims that playing in Nagg will earn u 50% disco rates

Who claimed that?

Pidpad - there are few enough high TV games to be able to say there is a difference.

[Hobnail]

The stats suggest huge disco rates in Auld and Nagg, verging on 50%.

You did....or am not reading it right.

[dode]

Saying that disco rates are at 50% in Nagg is not the same as saying you will earn 50% disco rates by playing there. One is an average, the other is an individual.

[Hobnail]

Nagg has a 50% completion rate

You might even have said it twice.

[dode]

Indeed I did. What happens in Nagg on average is not necessarily the same as what happens to the individual within Nagg, though. Otherwise we'd all be Chinese

[Hobnail]

Averages still apply to individuals.

At the end of the day, people claiming 50% incomplete / disco games in a league is only going to negatively impact on that league. Why would u do that?

As for FOL/Auld, Im not gonna make any claims because i avoid both diligently.

Hopefully OCC Open will replace my need for Auld in the future though - its a good idea.

[Hobnail]

Indeed I did. What happens in Nagg on average is not necessarily the same as what happens to the individual within Nagg, though. Otherwise we'd all be Chinese

So we are arguing and agreeing???

[dode]

No, you're saying that I am saying something I am not. Averages don't apply to individuals, as you claim: they are merely averages of what happens in the league.

If you go into any league with a "I will never disco" attitude then you will, obviously, have a lower than average disco rate. Now do the same in a league with an even lower average disco rate and you'll get an even lower personal disco rate than you would in the high-average disco league.

At the end of the day, people claiming 50% incomplete / disco games in a league is only going to negatively impact on that league. Why would u do that?

Because it's a fact. Would you rather people were lied to?

[Hobnail]

No. Id rather u told the whole truth instead of perpetuating half truths.

[Hobnail]

Where would we be after all if i started shouting that my disco rates in OCC are higher than in Nagg. (Which they are)

All i would be doing is talking bollocks for the sake of it. OCC is clearly a better environment. All i would be doing is potentially discouraging new league members for no good reason.

[dode]

What's half-truth about it? The only meaningful comparison between MM leagues for these purposes is the average incomplete rate. This is because your own effect on that rate will carry across to each league you play in with the same attitude.

[Hobnail]

Because what u are saying might stop people playing in any of them....to the detriment of all of them.

[dode]

So you'd rather I didn't tell them the truth?

[Hobnail]

No. Id rather u told the whole truth instead of perpetuating half truths.

[dode]

What's half-truth about it? The only meaningful comparison between MM leagues for these purposes is the average incomplete rate. This is because your own effect on that rate will carry across to each league you play in with the same attitude.

[Hobnail]

It is a half truth because u are not pointing out that by applying a personal best practice to your completion rates, u can expect a much better environment to play in.

You might say that it is obvious, but i think all that IS obvious about these leagues is that they are full of people who do not understand how to affect probability to your advantage.

[dode]

by applying a personal best practice to your completion rates, u can expect a much better environment to play in.

That's true regardless of the environment and, as such, is irrelevant when comparing across environments. It is therefore nothing to do with what I have said, which is not a half-truth.

It is a fact that when you play in an environment with a higher average incomplete rate then you are likely* to have an increased chance of incomplete games compared to in an environment with lower average incomplete rates even if you never terminate a game early yourself.

* "likely" because we are talking about averages and statistics. Nothing is absolute.

[Hobnail]

At no stage have I been comparing across environments other than with OCC which we know to be a good environment.

All I have been saying is that Nagg isnt necessarily as bad as people like you would have us believe.

Your first comment suggested a 50% disco rate in Auld and Nagg. Given that you have said yourself that both MM completion rates in those leagues are more or less the same, you are not comparing across environments and are therefore not telling all the truth.

[dode]

Nagg and Auld are exactly as bad (or good) as I would have you believe: the disconnection rate is about 50%. The comparison I made was with FOL and with Auld's challenge games. I therefore AM comparing across environments and, it seems, am telling more of the truth than you are.

My first comment did more than "suggest" a 50% disco rate, it stated that's what the disco rate is.

Your argument: "It's not that bad"

My argument: "The disco rate is 50% on average for MM in both, compared with 20% in FOL and 30% for challenge games"

Yours is a subjective statement regarding how you find it; mine is an objective statement about the facts. I place no interpretation on my statement.