Dark Nexus, W40K Moba

[Smiling Tom]

Looks like it's coming to Steam in December

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxEMRTCPKg0

[Rymdkejsaren]

I'm skeptical to anything they call a MOBA because they tend to be extremely similar to DotA and its ilk. Which means, in my humble opinion, that they have shit game mechanics.

[Errant Saint]

What are shit game mechanics to you R? I ask as a Dota player but with no offense taken.

[Rymdkejsaren]

I feel that DotA was a hodgepodge of game mechanics that did not synergize. It was built up as a fun extra game mode and mechanics were stacked on top of each other as they were invented. Even though a lot has happened since then, I feel that lack of synergy remains in the core mechanics. So many of the mechanics subtract from or get in the way of the base experience of a tactical action PvP game, and many of them add a learning curve without giving proportionate rewards in gameplay. The recipe seems mostly to excel at making people really frustrated and angry.

 

Perhaps when you've learned all the items, heroes, and exact timing of all the actions, DotA 2 becomes a genius piece of game design. I don't know, and I never will, because the journey to get to that place does not offer nearly enough rewards along the way. I have geeked out pretty hard on some games (Ultima Online, Team Fortress Classic, Bloodline Champions) and learned every little detail to be a good player, but that was because I had fun along the way. I have played games with high learning curves (like EVE... oh lord), but again, they offered fun along the way.

[Errant Saint]

I would agree with the steep learning curve. Most of the not having fun along the way tends to be a toxic community though and not the intrinsic game. To that extent you could leverage the same toward public match making in Blood Bowl, though the learning curve is not quite as steep.

 

Mind you I'm not trying to argue with you or win you over, just my observations. Personally the first time I tried Dota was in beta and I didn't stick with it for much of the reasons you mentioned, that and the inability to re-bind keys (in beta). I tried it again perhaps a year later if not longer because of the community of BB players that would hang out on Ventrillo and play it time to time. The 2nd time around, aside from the BB crew, I made a friend who showed me the proverbial ropes and since then, aforementioned toxic players aside, I've become quite a fan.

[Rymdkejsaren]

I don't doubt that you can have a lot of fun playing MOBAs, especially together with some friends. Most of my time in them has been solo which surely has not helped. But the investment in time and effort required just does not seem to pay off.

 

And no, I am not trying to tell people the games they like are shit. It's all just my opinion. If you're having fun, you're doing it right.

[Errant Saint]

And no, I am not trying to tell people the games they like are shit.

Bigger man than I. I've advocated for hard drug addictions over MMOs for instance, and still would but it's not a common topic of conversation.

 

I never got the impression that's what you were doing though, I was just curious what you didn't like about the mechanics. I've gleaned the learning curve isn't worth your effort (relative to pay-off), is there anything else though? Not that that's not enough, again just being curious.

 

As an aside regarding being worth the effort, several players have been made multi-millionaires via prize winnings already via Dota. That's certainly worth the effort but that's not a practical reason to start playing methinks.

[Rymdkejsaren]

It is difficult to argue that the most popular games in e-sports with prizes of millions of dollars have bad mechanics. But I think they do. It has really been too long since I played them even half seriously for me to argue specifics. But besides the learning curve, I also mentioned a lack of synergy between different game mechanics. I think the game inherently works against itself because of the numerous mechanics that have been tacked onto each other (and this is due to the legacy of how it was first created as a mod that kept getting expanded on). The result is a really strange and counter-intuitive meta-game, from which I believe a lot of the toxicity also stems.

 

It is difficult to express without going into the specific mechanics, but I think the essence of is it that the mechanics do not add up and you can only figure the game out by reading strategy guides or applying a lot of trial and error. In a game like EVE, trial and error works because of the scope and timeframe. But when your randomly selected teammates are trusting you to pull your load and you're trying to wade through a swamp of odd mechanics and choices, the result is not pleasant for anyone.

[Errant Saint]

Oh I really wasn't sure what you meant and clumped the learning curve into the bad mechanics and synergy bit. If you meant other things then I really don't know what you're talking about without naming specifics, which doesn't mean you're wrong by any means.

 

Also I don't think that money and popularity are inherent shows of quality so I'd say it's largely irrelevant in relation to mechanics. I just meant that bit as for being worth the effort, because if truly you are confident that you are capable of winning these prize pools then it likely becomes worth the effort all gaming enjoyment aside. Most people don't like their jobs but deem them worth the effort for less payout. But again I don't think it's practical to approach these games expecting to become a top professional player, especially if you don't enjoy it; much like regular sports in that regard.