Pidpad Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Surely that is all the more reason to do a poll and understand the community view on this? I'd argue that a large portion of the community hasn't found us yet. We'd only gauge the views of the current community. (but also, have a look at the number of votes in the poll for aging, 67 as of now, that's less than 2/3 of the current OCC1 league). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
BallztotheWalla Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It's just that ageing had no effect on a match and a wizard completely changes how a match is played.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 3 5 2 3 2 2 2
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Somebody needs to test if you can get a double wizard with the pitch enhancement, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidpad Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I stand corrected. Stadium enhancements can be removed. Learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Rymdkejsaren Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Also, the results of polls tend to be misdirecting in many ways. For one, a lot of people might vote against who would later have voted for if they had just tried the mechanic out. I put up the ageing poll because I knew it was a hot issue. In retrospect, I would have worded it a bit differently*. Just taking the temperature here: I take it you wizard haters would accept it if all other stadium upgrades were allowed but the wizard was banned? * 1. I won't play if there's ageing. 2. I'm an adult and can deal with new things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 2 4 2 2 3 2 2
BallztotheWalla Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Yes the rest are fine and adds flavor. Some might hate the bribe too since it gives an incentive to play dwarfs and nobody likes dwarfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 3 5 2 3 2 2 2
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I honestly want to play with ageing on to see how things turn out, but unfortunately that would involve me running an experiment with 100 live human subjects, and I think that shit is actually illegal by law... Status quo wants ageing off, I can live with that, least we still get to bump this league to the new client. If nobody can prove that the Wizard can be double stacked then Stadium upgrades need to be banned too, and for logistical reasons the player market needs to be banned for lack of options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Yes the rest are fine and adds flavor. Some might hate the bribe too since it gives an incentive to play dwarfs and nobody likes dwarfs. in the same logic, 3x bribe vs 4x bribe is a rare event, but being able to dupe the underdog to a Wiz/Wiz stalemate is pretty epic. I need to test this shit, it'll take me a week due to the fact that I'm going to lose this weekend at a TT event, but I will prove this fact, one way or another, so help me nuffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moncap Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Just taking the temperature here: I take it you wizard haters would accept it if all other stadium upgrades were allowed but the wizard was banned? This wizard hater would. I like the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moncap Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It seemed to me that in the other thread (or earlier in this thread maybe? somewhere) there were quite a few people saying the wizard is broken but the other upgrades are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Just taking the temperature here: I take it you wizard haters would accept it if all other stadium upgrades were allowed but the wizard was banned? I think the wizard is the only real game changer. Being able to keep a lower TV team from benefiting from a wizard would dramatically change the dynamic of the league, and it would hurt new teams and low TV teams the most. Obviously free bribes favor high armor teams as well, but it doesn't bother me as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 2 2 4 3 2
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I'm fine if the game is 1x vs 2x wizard, that is still fair in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallztotheWalla Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 If you can have 2 wizards then the next question is if you can use them both in the same turn? Because Carpet bombing an entire av7 team off the field would be something... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 3 5 2 3 2 2 2
PaloLV Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I'm fine with stadium upgrades on even though there is zero chance my stadium will ever take the wizard. The star player discount upgrade seems fun. 10k cash to pick up the Bomber seems like a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I'd like to think the answer was 'no', but knowing Cyanide first hand, I doubt they've even considered that scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidpad Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I personally think that people are vastly overstating the wizards effect. First, who would actually use it? Normally fast and agile teams like wizards, so they'd be prime suspects. If those teams have a low TV, why on earth would they cancel out their advantage by giving the opposing team a wizard as well? At high TV they'd love to, so fair enough there. We've identified who's going to use it. High TV agile/fast teams. They're not exactly common in OCC as it is now and if the bank rule works as everyone seems to suggest (can't sustain a high TV) we'll see even fewer. Secondly, who is a wizard really good against? Slow teams. Caging teams. They get punished the hardest by the wizard and are least likely to actually get some ball-stealing use out of it (they can still zap mr one-turner over there). Against other fast/agile teams it's far from as good (it's still useful, just less so) and as a bonus you'll be giving one to them that they can use just as well as you can yourself. Would I as primarily an (high) elf coach use the wizard stadium? No. I'd get anything that punishes gfi's so I can use my movement advantage better. Would I love it if my opponent gave me a wizard? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Plain call, less bitching more testing? Theory BB is fine, but we need to prove this shit in practise before we can get the rules changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidpad Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Pretty much. Also Worth keeping in mind: If you pick the wizard stadium upgrade, you can't pick something else (can you? I've actually never played a team long enough in bb2 to get a stadium enhancement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I'm just a flashy twat, I've played a team long enough to get the 400k cosmetic upgrade, because , yes, I'm just that stupid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallztotheWalla Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Yeah as long as you have money you can change it.... I think the wizard effect is vastly underestimated... I counter wizard last match in the championship and will do so if there is even a remote chance of my opponent having a wizard. As a chaos team I benefit hugely from the wizard since if my opponent can use it, he is gonna get one anyway and at some point you run out of useful inducements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 3 5 2 3 2 2 2
Moncap Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 First, who would actually use it? High TV teams that face a wizard all the time anyway. Nurgle and Chaos who are around 2400/2500 or so and face a wizard every week anyway. Getting one yourself is gonna help more than any of the other stadium benefits. Dark Elves and High Elves would benefit most, sure. A guaranteed wizard against those caging Orcs/undead is will certainly make things easier. It helps the strong/high TV and punishes the weak/TV efficient. So often when I was playing Necro I would fire a zombie or drop staff to get a wizard myself or deny my opponent one. To face a team 500 TV higher who gets a wizard anyway...It would put me off player the lower TV races, and I believe it would for others too. Discouraging variation in an already smaller pool of races seems like a mistske to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal_HM Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Moncap, the point was over yonder, you missed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moncap Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 *looks around* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidpad Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Should the wizard stadium upgrade become a problem n seasons in the future we can always disable it along with any other upgrades that show itself to be too powerful (I have a certain other one in mind and no it's not the bribe one). It'll be quite a few seasons before the teams reach high TV (besides, isn't all this really an argument for having aging on, if it's a high TV problem only?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Moncap Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 So anyone who has bought it won't be able to pick another upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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