Goddammit, Wizard

[RayXXX]

All available in that other thread

Well that point anyone in direction of reported games.

[dode]

I used the same working as you, I just remembered Mighty Blow

That would do it! I'll update my tables.

All the replays will be available to anyone who wants to look in BBManager, as will all the reports be open in the stat collection thread. How they are interpreted, though, will likely be where any disagreement occurs.

[davies.daniel7]

That would do it!

I'll update my tables.

Haha Mighty Blow players have caused me a lot of issues while working out probability tables. Though not quite as much trouble as sods with pro.

[danton]

And all without using the bug yourself. See?

Funny how it was only after I said that I would start to make use of the bug myself, if no action was taken regarding it, that you seemed to decide there was an issue to deal with at all. Previous to that your replies were along the lines of "we can't police it and it affects everyone the same anyway".

It remains to be seen whether or not I make use of the bug or not in upcoming matches anyway and that will depend on what situations present themselves when I have a wizard at my disposal. Your current data gathering campaign makes no mention about whether this type of behaviour is frowned upon or not.

Not misleading at all. It's merely something which will allow me to prioritise a little. Thing is, EVERY match in which this bug could happen will be taken into account, even those where the wizard is used at the end of the turn and the players are removed from the pitch anyway (meaning that there was no bug anyway).

It may not be misleading to you, but to other coaches, many of whom still don't even know the bug exists, I feel it is misleading.

[davies.daniel7]

All the replays will be available to anyone who wants to look in BBManager, as will all the reports be open in the stat collection thread. How they are interpreted, though, will likely be where any disagreement occurs.

Haha you can say that again. Cheers I'll follow it, the see what I can come up with at the end of the season.

[dode]

Haha Mighty Blow players have caused me a lot of issues while working out probability tables. Though not quite as much trouble as sods with pro.

Yeah, I wrote one some time ago that took me a while to add all the "what if" scenarios! I've still not added PO, but don't see the need now so much given that there are plenty of sites which will do the hard bit for you

Funny how it was only after I said that I would start to make use of the bug myself, if no action was taken regarding it, that you seemed to decide there was an issue to deal with at all. Previous to that your replies were along the lines of "we can't police it and it affects everyone the same anyway".

Utter bollocks, and you know it, especially given how unclear you were about what actually happened in your match and your intended use of it. There is always an issue when people bring things up.

The point remains, though, that your statement of "the only option left to me, given that you won't change the policy, is to aggressively exploit the bug as much as possible" is tripe.

It remains to be seen whether or not I make use of the bug or not in upcoming matches anyway and that will depend on what situations present themselves when I have a wizard at my disposal. Your current data gathering campaign makes no mention about whether this type of behaviour is frowned upon or not.

On the contrary, it's quite clear what the policy is. I even wrote it up in large green letters for you in this very thread.

It may not be misleading to you, but to other coaches, many of whom still don't even know the bug exists, I feel it is misleading.

Psychic powers as well as overt influence now? I am impressed...

Personally I don't really care whether you think it may be misleading to others or not, because the policy is clearly written in large green letters (even though you somehow managed to miss it yourself). I don't think it is mislieading, and it is something which will help me prioritise what I look at, so it stays.

[Pidpad]

Could you two please give it a rest? :P

[danton]

Utter bollocks, and you know it, especially given how unclear you were about what actually happened in your match and your intended use of it. There is always an issue when people bring things up.

The point remains, though, that your statement of "the only option left to me, given that you won't change the policy, is to aggressively exploit the bug as much as possible" is tripe.

Oh do try to be civil for once! So much rage and hyperbole is not going to achieve anything beyond getting the thread locked (probably what you want to happen anyway). I sincerely congratulated you and the directors on taking some action and yet you still could not refrain from making snarky comments.

My statement about exploiting the bug was meant as a way of making something happen and in order to draw attention to the situation. Clearly it worked as intended.

On the contrary, it's quite clear what the policy is. I even wrote it up in large green letters for you in this very thread.

Psychic powers as well as overt influence now? I am impressed...

Personally I don't really care whether you think it may be misleading to others or not, because the policy is clearly written in large green letters (even though you somehow managed to miss it yourself). I don't think it is mislieading, and it is something which will help me prioritise what I look at, so it stays.

Nowhere in your large green letters does it say anything about how people should use the wizard. So whether I make use of the bug now will simply form a part of the data that you gather, as no other indication is given.

@pidpad - this is what happens when an immovable object encounters an irresistable force! :P

[Juriel]

Egads.

[dode]

Oh do try to be civil for once! So much rage and hyperbole is not going to achieve anything beyond getting the thread locked (probably what you want to happen anyway).

Don't talk crap and I won't call you on it. Thread locking would take me far less effort than actually responding to you does, so don't try to attribute my motivations either. This is the THIRD time I've asked you to continue by PM if you are unhappy with tone.

My statement about exploiting the bug was meant as a way of making something happen and in order to draw attention to the situation. Clearly it worked as intended.

Easily said in hindsight. Like I said, I call bull.

Nowhere in your large green letters does it say anything about how people should use the wizard.

leave the wizard as it is

You're a smart guy - work it out.

So whether I make use of the bug now will simply form a part of the data that you gather, as no other indication is given.

Incredible! It's like that was the intention!

Edit: Check your PMs please.

[RayXXX]

@pidpad - this is what happens when an immovable object encounters an irresistable force! :P

Pidpad will go in matchday 2 day 1 and edit 2-0 wins to your opponents just to get you on same side :lol:

Then again you probably fight the you both had better performance in losing

[danton]

Don't talk crap and I won't call you on it. Thread locking would take me far less effort than actually responding to you does, so don't try to attribute my motivations either. This is the THIRD time I've asked you to continue by PM if you are unhappy with tone.

And the rage seems to increase... I am perfectly happy to point out in public that I find your tone to be condescending and rude. If you want me to do it in a PM too, then I will.

Easily said in hindsight. Like I said, I call bull.

Why would I openly state that from now on I would be taking advantage of a bug, given that nothing was going to be done about it, if it were not to draw attention to the issue? If I had really wanted to take advantage of a bug for my own profit, then I would never have even brought the issue up, as keeping quiet about it would have made more sense. I suppose it is only a coincidence then that this thread started to gather any real momentum around the time I posted that...

leave the wizard as it is

You're a smart guy - work it out.

The wizard is a game mechanic. What is being discussed here is if we should allow the broken aspects of this mechanic to be exploited or not. Hence why I said that you give no indication as to how people should act in situations where the exploit can be used.

If you have nothing constructive to add then feel free to lock the thread.

[dode]

Check your PMs.

[RayXXX]

*dons serious cap*

Knock it on the head indeed no need to keep going over and over or thread will be locked.

RayXXX

[Pidpad]

Enough of this already. It's starting to look like the re-roll/not re-roll thread prior to LE. We don't want to go there.

I suggest the two of you continue by pm so I don't have to lock this.

[Hobnail]

Hey! The reroll thread was fun.......

[straume]

Yeah! As far as I rememebers there were no problems with tone in that one. :lol:

[Anglakhel]

Just to be clear on the data collection in situations where the Wizard successfully removes a player from the pitch with a KO or better, the last section on the data gathering is meant to ask if anyone else on the team could still have a chance at scoring?

Division: 5c

Matchday: 1

Team with wizard: Turisas

Team without wizard: Elvolution

TV difference: 350

Was the target(s) (answer all yes/no only):

(i) knocked down: Yes

(ii) KOd or better: Yes

(iii) within MA-3 of scoring: Yes

Was the target team subsequently able (i.e. was it possible, as opposed to did they succeed) to score (yes/no): Yes

Obviously the KO'd player can't score, but if the Target Team can still score then it's a yes?

Does this need any more detail such as the turn the Wizard was used on? Or will all those specifics of use be evaluated by investigating the Replays? If the Wizard is used for example when the Target Team has more than one turn remaining there is a big difference in whether or not the Target Team is subsequently able to score.

[Hawca]

The last bit if they can score..

Example. I lightening you runner, no other player s near by.

Your runner is 6 squares away,

MA 7-3 is 4 and 2 gfi. Yes you can score, the ball bounced bad and you need to move out range. No you cant.

[dode]

Or will all those specifics of use be evaluated by investigating the Replays?

This.

[Anglakhel]

This.

Coolio.

[nufflehatesme]

leave the wizard as it is

You're a smart guy - work it out.

just to be clear, that means using it at the end of turn is completely fine? people play to win, and that will mean maximising their use of the wizard. with or without the bug.

from what i read the answer is yes - it is open slather with the wizard.

[Ossie1972]

Agreed. Let's all get back onto topics than we can all agree on, without resorting to flaming.

Like the fact that Claw is OP and anyone who disagrees is an idiot...... :lol:

[TheMuffinThief]

people play to win

Really? I play for fun. Obviously, I'm going to try to win, but I don't think "abusing" bugs is fun, so I certainly won't use a wizard end of turn unless it's the right play. Don't assume everyone will do this just because it's "better".

But yes, if you want to use the wizard end of turn, as multiple greensuits have said in this thread, go for it.

[nufflehatesme]

Really? I play for fun. Obviously, I'm going to try to win, but I don't think "abusing" bugs is fun, so I certainly won't use a wizard end of turn unless it's the right play. Don't assume everyone will do this just because it's "better".

But yes, if you want to use the wizard end of turn, as multiple greensuits have said in this thread, go for it.

some people play to win. is that ok to assume?

the reason i wanted clarification is the rule will stay as is. dode was musing earlier in the thread that people will get a tap on the shoulder if they are deemed to be abusing the bug. i wanted to make sure that will not happen.

to be fair, i play with the same intentions. play for fun, try to win. abusing bugs = not fun