Hobnail Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Change is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 5
Dreamy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 'Masochist' springs to mind. It helps me a lot in my job, and now lately to calculate scores (as long as I don't sort with empty columns in the mix ) If there's ever stagnation in a tier, instead of moving teams randomly one could say that "the sixth place in every tier gets shifted one spot to the right" (I.e. 6th place in T2A ends up in T2B, etc.) Still mixes stuff up, but ain't random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Pidpad Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 There should be less of that with the new system. At most 4 teams stay, compared to 5 previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
akirilus Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I like it, especially because it gives meaning to late-season games in the Championship division. Let's face it, the way things are now, if you are looking at a 1-2-2 start but your team is still intact, you have a large incentive to mail it in and almost zero incentive to try hard and win more games - you'll get relegated to Tier 2 regardless, but at least you might have a team left. The new system makes 4th and 6th place desirable, so even with a 1-2-2 start you have everything to play for. (If you started 0-0-5, you are sol regardless, nothing will fix that). Promotions/relegations seem to happen exactly the same way as they happened before - essentially all this means is that current Tier 2 is being reduced from 4 divisions to 2, with the corresponding changes in the number of promoted teams, and the added wrinkle that people who finish in the bottom 4 in the Championship essentially get double-demoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaloLV Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Even an 0-0-5 start doesn't leave you dead for a 6th place finish. Win the last four and you should still get 6th place or have a shot at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy75 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Don't make more work for yourselves though guys...BB2 won't be too far away and it may well need to be adjusted then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Pidpad Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Swapping over to 8 races from 23 seems like a poor deal though. We've not made any decisions when it comes to BB2 yet, as there's no release date set (and they have a record of moving it backwards a few times anyhow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Tys123 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Top 2 from current T2 go to Championship Place 3-7 (20 teams) go to the new T1 Bottom 8 from T1 and top 3 from T3 make up the new T2, we fill the rest of the spots with bonus promotions. The teams relegated from T1 have first go at bonus promotions to the new T1. Have you considered taking 3rd to 6th from tiers 1 and 2 and putting them into the new T1 With 7th to 10th from tiers 1 and 2 going into T2. ie treat Tiers 1 and 2 as the same when considiering who goes where instead of putting tier 1 below tier 2 It seems odd for 3rd place in division 1 to end up in a lower division than 7th in division 2 ( although bonus promotions could put them in the same place ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 20 7 3 4 2 3
Pidpad Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Have you considered taking 3rd to 6th from tiers 1 and 2 and putting them into the new T1 With 7th to 10th from tiers 1 and 2 going into T2. ie treat Tiers 1 and 2 as the same when considiering who goes where instead of putting tier 1 below tier 2 It seems odd for 3rd place in division 1 to end up in a lower division than 7th in division 2 ( although bonus promotions could put them in the same place ). We're using the system we have in place now to sort out who fills the new T1. That system puts teams relegated from T1 below teams who stayed in T2 when it comes to bonus promoting. It comes down to how you view things. We view the new tier as something that we slot in between current T1 and T2 (thus the work name T1,5) and that's why the above system will be used. This'll only make even more sense if the current T2 keeps its name. Have other ideas (like the one you suggested) been considered? Yup, but we've opted for the above as that uses our current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Dionysian Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This Top 2 from current T2 go to Championship Place 3-7 (20 teams) go to the new T1 Bottom 8 from T1 and top 3 from T3 make up the new T2, we fill the rest of the spots with bonus promotions. seems different from: How and when do we intend to implement this? At the end of S27 we intend to bonus promote teams into the new T1 using the current system (which means the16 teams that normally would stay in T2 and team 3-6 from T1 end up there, with slots then moving down in case of re-rolls etc). This means there'll be plenty of bonus promotions at the end of S27. From the start of S28 the above structure will be in place. specifically in regard to what happens to places 3-6 in top tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Pidpad Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 specifically in regard to what happens to places 3-6 in top tier Yeah, it's because I can't count. Places 3-7 stay in T2, that's 20 teams and not 16. That's why there's a difference. I'll amend the mistake right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
Dionysian Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Ah ok - I was afraid of that. Handling of the changeover disincentivizes current T2 participants from promoting to T1 for S27 (which I believe was also TYS' point). Unless you're confident of a top 2 finish in T1 S27 it seems far better to wait a season. Thanks for the quick clarification though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Pidpad Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well, while there will be more slots per division that get promoted (3 instead of 2) they'll be battling among the (current) top 30 teams rather than top 50. Not certain that's easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
JRCO Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I like these changes. Only things that puzzle me a little is that the last team in chmpionship has to restart in T2. I guess it won't happen often and the team will most of the time get a bonus promo and end up in tier 1, but still that risk seems a little bit unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dode Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The last 4 teams in the championship will go down to tier 2. It'll happen a lot and is intentional: it gives an incentive to get at least 6th in the championship in order to get a shot at the top sooner (thereby meaning every match has a point rather than quitting after 3 losses as the season is over), it gives those teams which did poorly a "rest" of sorts (compared with T1) and it mixes things up a little between what could otherwise be a quite stagnant top 2 tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
The_Real_Chris Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I struggle with such things... So is it Div 1 - 10 coaches1. Stay Div 12. Stay Div 13. Stay Div 14. Stay Div 15. Go to Div 26. Go to Div 27. Go to Div 38. Go to Div 39. Go to Div 310. Go to Div 3 Div 2 - 20 coaches1/1. Go to Div 12/2. Go to Div 13/3. Go to Div 14/4. Stay Div 25/5. Stay Div 26/6. Stay Div 27/7. Go to Div 38/8. Go to Div 39/9. Go to Div 310/10. Go to Div 3 Div 3 - 40 teams1-3 promote to Div 24-7 Stay Div 38-10 Go to Div 4 With regads to keeping the top 4 in Div 1 - have you looked at past leagues to see if teams that left div 1 several times if they were consistently in 3/4 spots? If thats the case you are going to have less variety in Div 1. Also Div one player will be playing at least three teams from last season again, Div 2 two teams. So less variety for the coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidpad Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 We are willing to trade potentially less variety in T1 to increase the meaning of games in the second half of the season and increase variety in the current t2, where 5 teams currently stay in a division. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4 3 3 2 4 2 2
JRCO Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I was reflecting on promotion / relegation. Today the system is linked to the teams and not to the coaches : If you start a new team you restart at the Bottom and can't retain your Tier position. Have you thought of a system in which if a coach wants to switch race and is happy to play with inducements, he can have the option to retain its spot in the tier he was the season before ( Or in the tier its performance give him the right to play) ? This could be particulary interesting especially as we may switch to BB2 soon and I guess if teams can't be transferred from BBCE to BB2, the Tiers first composition will be based on the coaches last performances / Tier Distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobas Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Inducements are fun but I dont see any reason to play new team in meatgrinder of T2 (almost no rookie team will survive there). The same for T3. Its only possible in lower tiers. I play in UKBBL and there is such chance for play high TV with rookie team, and my rookie Norse vs 1900 TV Chaos is no fun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 3 18 3 2 10
Doomy77 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Speak for yourself, my rookie Nurgle had great fun tearing a 2K Chorf team to pieces thanks to Borak and Grashnak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 4
JRCO Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Inducements are fun but I dont see any reason to play new team in meatgrinder of T2 (almost no rookie team will survive there). The same for T3. Its only possible in lower tiers. I play in UKBBL and there is such chance for play high TV with rookie team, and my rookie Norse vs 1900 TV Chaos is no fun at all. I didn't say make it automatic, I just suggest to give the choice. Some coaches may think differently than you and may love the challenge. It may be frustrating for some who are tier 2 to go back as low as tier 6. If such it may also happen you have more than 1 rookie team when you Reroll, each led by quality coaches. I know great coaches who in my other league (Http://newogham.freeforums.org , season XIX will start soon in case you would be intrested to join) did very well with a low TV team against High TV team. One of them (Dionysian) is well known here as he will be in Tier 1 OCC next season. Believe me : you don't want to meet his dwarves with a Higher TV than him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Cloud Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Well fact is that the change to BB2 is uncharterd waters and any kind of system could be implemented for Season 1. One could let all coaches start afresh in 60 divisions on the same level & implement a play off for the season1 championship...In season 2 all teams are then seeded according to season 1 performance and normal proceedings can comence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobnail Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Or we could put all 240 coaches in one division...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 5
Tys123 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I remember the stunty cup where it was all 1 division. 1 Season lasted for over 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards 20 7 3 4 2 3
Zgagor Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 First of all, I don't think all 200+ OCC coaches will get BB2 straight from day one. I also hope that Cyanide won't kill BB1 servers immediately.That means that we'll have some sort of a transitional period during which seeding/division structuring could be easier.Second of all, seeding and ranking based on coach performance, regardless of rerolling teams, could lead to all sorts of abuse.Third of all, I think one of the points of persistent leagues is to reward, well, persistence :P So encouraging switching teams while staying at the top would make the league (seem) less stable. Don't much care for this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
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