Questions About The New League Structure

[Soleil Noir]

If you ask me personally I'd say playoffs have no place in a structured league system.

Look at (most) european football leagues and how they are set up, thats what we are basing things on. No playoffs there. 

 

 

As for more money and spp, there are workarounds for that (which were discussed), essentially having everyone play a game each week of the playoffs.

However, as the veto was given we didn't go too indepth at that as there was no point to doing so.

 

Well no play offs in European Football (Soccer) is mainly due to length of regular season and si competition Champions league, national cup, league cup, european or world cup events.....but in others sports   lots of european Rugby , Basketball, Handball or Hockey league, US Football  leagues do Have play offs. So I do not buy this argument.

 

Also time has passed, zeph could change its mind (only fools never do).

 

More games is not always an advantage : it is also more risk of injuries.so play offs qualified teams would  not necesserraly advantaged.

 

Have you considered a poll to have the OCC's player's opinion ?(I remember a message where you said you care about the player's experience).

 

At championship level only 1 division, would make no sense to have play offs but in other level that would be neat. Could also be the occasion to make participate the 5th & 6th of the championship with teams from Tier 1 and make it an accession /relegation competition.

 

PS : Don't worry : I understand how this league works ==>  I do not have any illusion my suggestion has any chance to be heard or received.

[Doomy77]

I've seen Zephire change his mind.

Once.

[Pidpad]

Well no play offs in European Football (Soccer) is mainly due to length of regular season and si competition Champions league, national cup, league cup, european or world cup events.....but in others sports   lots of european Rugby , Basketball, Handball or Hockey league, US Football  leagues do Have play offs. So I do not buy this argument.

 

Also time has passed, zeph could change its mind (only fools never do).

 

More games is not always an advantage : it is also more risk of injuries.so play offs qualified teams would  not necesserraly advantaged.

 

Have you considered a poll to have the OCC's player's opinion ?(I remember a message where you said you care about the player's experience).

 

At championship level only 1 division, would make no sense to have play offs but in other level that would be neat. Could also be the occasion to make participate the 5th & 6th of the championship with teams from Tier 1 and make it an accession /relegation competition.

 

PS : Don't worry : I understand how this league works ==>  I do not have any illusion my suggestion has any chance to be heard or received.

 

You clearly did not read/understand what I wrote. I said based on European football and by that I mean football, not hockey, rugby or any other sport. If we'd based it on something else I would have said so

The lenght of the regular season in Swedish ice hockey is probably longer than the one for football (if we consider the summer break as not part of the season) yet the ice hockey run a playoff for 8 (or is it 10 now?) out of 12 teams. To me that means that the regular season is rather pointless (and actually what killed off my interest in icehockey).

 

Another reason to not use play-offs in blood bowl is the highly volatile strenghts of the teams. Having 2-3 players go missing for a promotion/relegation match would suck, especially if the other team already had their place in said play-off game secured and could play just to preserve players.

 

Considered a poll? Briefly, and then decided against it. I believe we used a poll back in S6 or whenever it was the last time we changed the structure. It was utterly useless. Everyone and their cat wanted their suggestion to go through, even if it wasn't included in the poll. For a more recent example, look at the naming of divisions poll. I personally think such polls are rather useless, especially as we have a fair amount of turnover among coaches, which means that a fair amount of the people voting wouldn't be around to see the result. I think (which of course might be all wrong) that it's better to leave important decisions to the people who have to enforce said decisions, at least in this setting. In the real world things are a bit different of course. 

 

As for Zephire changing his mind, doubt that (as I'll remind him, among other things :P) and on top of that the decision was re-made fairly recently.

 

 

As for any suggestions to change league structure, listened to and filed away for the time being. I don't see us changing for quite some time again (unless the current one sucks horribly, which I of course doubt ). We had the previous system more or less intact for 20 seasons.

[Javelin]

Playoffs are for fans and to make money for leagues and teams in real life.  I don't think any of those incentives are applicable to us.

[zippy75]

Playoffs are for fans and to make money for leagues and teams in real life.  I don't think any of those incentives are applicable to us.

sounds about right!

[Hobnail]

Actually Pidpad we did have a leaguewide poll once before. To appease the discussion of a full reroll when LE ( i think) came out.

[Hobnail]

And Zephire definitely does change his mind.

[Pidpad]

Actually Pidpad we did have a leaguewide poll once before. To appease the discussion of a full reroll when LE ( i think) came out.

I did mention that, and it was utterly useless.

[straume]

Playoffs? No, thanks.

[SovereignStrike]

Playoffs require functional overtime mechanics too.

[Hobnail]

I did mention that, and it was utterly useless.

I dont think youll find it was. Until that point the league was gonna reroll. We didnt.

[Pidpad]

Not that poll, there was one about the structure as well (might have been admin only) and that was completely useless.

[PaloLV]

My only objection to playoffs is it delays the start of the next season. That's a deal breaker for me.

[dode]

It can be done in a manner which means everyone plays and there are no big delays. It would mean changing seeding entirely though.

[Gobas]

Few important things:

Play Offs = some ppl do nothing and watch. Less fun than grinding opponent into pitch.

Also it would make seeding harder.

 

PS. This is not Democracy, we are ruled by Mighty Wizard Zephire, Outstanding Owner of Orca Cola Championship. While he listen to his advisers it do not means he do what they say.

 

Ps2. Its Foooot Baaal. Not soccer. There is ball and there is foot. Period

[dode]

Few important things:

Play Offs = some ppl do nothing and watch. Less fun than grinding opponent into pitch.

Not necessarily.

Also it would make seeding harder.

Again, not necessarily. It can actually be used to make seeding easier (imo) and fairer (again, imo), but I appreciate entirely Pidpad would not want to change the system.

PS. This is not Democracy, we are ruled by Mighty Wizard Zephire, Outstanding Owner of Orca Cola Championship. While he listen to his advisers it do not means he do what they say.

This is the important thing

[Pidpad]

Seeding wouldn't necessarily be harder, just different and more time consuming at the start. Oh, and likely done by someone else :p

[Kazman29]

As much as I enjoy playoffs in all the major North American sports, I really don't think it belongs here. The good thing about the current structure is that it shows some consistency over a nine game schedule.  A playoff with a single loss and you're out doesn't work too well with a game that CAN be luck dependent.  You know those games where you feel like you're just watching and not even playing?  Your Orcs have Halfling armour, your elves fail every dodge, you roll dub skulls five times in one half, etc. etc. etc.  I would hate to have a playoff game decided by one of these or two pitch invasions in a row, two superstar players getting killed by rocks or just really bad dice all game long.  I've seen all of those happen in a playoff system and it really is very unsatisfying for the winner, the loser and everyone else in the league.  End of discussion, Kaz has spoken!  (if that's okay with you Zeph)

 

 

And the Swedish Elite League has 8/12 teams make the playoffs?  Pidpad, start following the NHL where half the teams make it and maybe your interest in THE GREATEST SPORT IN THE WORLD will return.  That was one of the saddest statements I have ever seen.... losing interest in ice hockey... is that possible?  Go to a game and sit up close, you'll get it back!

[Pidpad]

More than half in the NHL, isn't it? 30 teams, 16 to playoffs.

[notafunhater]

It's the same in the NBA - 30 teams, 16 make it to the playoffs.

 

I'm happy with the League structure as-is. I don't think we need playoffs, for all the reasons mentioned above.

[SovereignStrike]

your interest in THE GREATEST SPORT IN THE WORLD will return.  That was one of the saddest statements I have ever seen.... losing interest in ice hockey... is that possible?  Go to a game and sit up close, you'll get it back!

 

It's not sad, it's downright shameful!

[Soleil Noir]

As much as I enjoy playoffs in all the major North American sports, I really don't think it belongs here. The good thing about the current structure is that it shows some consistency over a nine game schedule.  A playoff with a single loss and you're out doesn't work too well with a game that CAN be luck dependent.  You know those games where you feel like you're just watching and not even playing?  Your Orcs have Halfling armour, your elves fail every dodge, you roll dub skulls five times in one half, etc. etc. etc.  I would hate to have a playoff game decided by one of these or two pitch invasions in a row, two superstar players getting killed by rocks or just really bad dice all game long.  I've seen all of those happen in a playoff system and it really is very unsatisfying for the winner, the loser and everyone else in the league.  End of discussion, Kaz has spoken!  (if that's okay with you Zeph)

 

 

And the Swedish Elite League has 8/12 teams make the playoffs?  Pidpad, start following the NHL where half the teams make it and maybe your interest in THE GREATEST SPORT IN THE WORLD will return.  That was one of the saddest statements I have ever seen.... losing interest in ice hockey... is that possible?  Go to a game and sit up close, you'll get it back!

 

Yep but unlucky games also affect a 9 games season especially as we face any teams only once. Luck is also a factor about when you face a team : ie  if you face a team just being crushed by its opponent, etc..... Or when a team abandon and is replaced by a dwarves team (your opponent for the first or second spot had the admin win and you will face the  dwarves fists... OCC real life  example here), So I am not sure that your argumentation is a real point here. At least it can be discussed.

 

Personnaly I understand that the league admins choose not to organize play offs but I regret it :

 

- Regarding posterity : it is not fair that the division A winner appears named ingame as Tier winner for the season ,

- and I love the feeling of  "win-Or-Go-home" games, so I miss it.

- I also regret that a poll is not organized to have the coaches opinion on it.

- Not sure it will have that much impact on reseeding, would depend the number of teams involved, but if it is division winner or first two teams only I don't see why you would not retain the regular season's seeding.

 

Regarding polls utililities : of course they are useless if they happens after the decision is taken or if the question is pointless (ie : regarding the rerolling  it was not possible to not switch to LE...). I can't remember a poll organisezd in OCC to help the decision making process.

 

I know someone has to take the decisions and you can't please everyone, I think it would do no harm if sometimes players opinion was sollicitated before a decision is taken on important topic.

 

The answer on the mode : " it is zeph league, so it is zeph call : please shut up", is just not that satisfying. The debates happens anyway because usually you spend hours to explain the decisions afterwards. Would be more satisfying for me if I had the illusion I could have contributed.

 

And don't misundertand me : globally I think you (the greensuits) make a great job, just feel you could do an even better job by listening or involving more  the players. A little bit like cyanide who has done a great game with BB could do an even better job by listening to the community if I can dare the comparison...

[dode]

- Regarding posterity : it is not fair that the division A winner appears named ingame as Tier winner for the season ,

Not a lot we can do about that, sadly.

- Not sure it will have that much impact on reseeding, would depend the number of teams involved, but if it is division winner or first two teams only I don't see why you would not retain the regular season's seeding.

Depends on how it is done. If you only take a few players then some will miss out, and that's simply not acceptable. If you take everyone then you kind of have to use the playoffs for seeding, otherwise what are they for?

The answer on the mode : " it is zeph league, so it is zeph call : please shut up", is just not that satisfying.

I think you know the answer to that one: if you don't like it, then...

[Pidpad]

 

 

- Regarding posterity : it is not fair that the division A winner appears named ingame as Tier winner for the season ,

 

 

 

Having play-offs wouldn't make a difference what so ever to that, it'd just add a row saying team Blah won play-offs season n.

The only solution is to run each division as a separate league, but Cyanide/Focus has deemed that way to useful and limits each person to 5 leagues maximum, making that impractical. We'd need 5 persons just to have the base divisions covered and they can't quit, ever. That's not counting any side leagues, emergency challenge leagues for when things break, holding leagues etc.

 

Basically, blame Cyanide for being inept :P

 

 

As for involving players in important decisions. Players (and sometimes red suits) don't have all the information available to them which makes it sort of less meaningful

[Hobnail]

Regarding polls utililities : of course they are useless if they happens after the decision is taken or if the question is pointless (ie : regarding the rerolling it was not possible to not switch to LE...). I can't remember a poll organisezd in OCC to help the decision process

The poll we took wasnt whether or not to move to LE, but whether all teams would be forced to start afresh when we did so.